|From ATS Thread: The
Mantell UFO Incident
The Mantell UFO Incident
Posted by jkrog08, on May 16, 2009
“The Mantell UFO Incident”, this is what is referred to by many as the first death caused by a UFO. This is not the only case of military and UFO engagements, but it is the case with the most evidence. This case was investigated by Project Sign, the predecessor to Project Bluebook. The official explanation from the United States Air Force is still listed as “undetermined”, however the USAF has stated other times in other documents that Mantell died while chasing a balloon. Many speculations fly as to exactly what Captain Mantell was chasing and what caused him to crash, was it Venus? Was it a Skyhook Balloon? Or was it something more, something otherworldly? Maybe the more important question is if it was an extraterrestrial craft did “they” cause Mantell to crash, or was it incidental and simply the outcome of a primitive aircraft trying to perform with a super-advanced interstellar spacecraft? I know this has been discussed on here before, but it has not been discussed or presented in any great comprehensive detail. With this being one of the best UFO-aircraft encounter incidents I feel it deserves this much more comprehensive presentation.
1. Overview of Captain Thomas F. Mantell
2.The Encounter and Crash The UFO Is Spotted
Four P-51 Mustangs, already in the air on their way to Standiford Air Field in northern Kentucky were called to investigate. They were lead by Captain Thomas Mantell.
The Three Persons involved in the chase:
The following is quoted from the available transcripts I found:
"Godman Tower Calling the flight of 4 ships northbound over Godman Field. Do you read? Over. [Pause] Godman Tower Calling the flight of 4 ships northbound over Godman Field. Do you read? Over."Now here is the interesting part that I mentioned above, this is a statement from USAF officer Richard Miller:
Richard T. Miller, who was in the Operations Room of Scott Air Force Base in Belleville, Illinois also made several profound statements regarding the crash. He was monitoring the radio talk between Mantell and Godman tower, and heard this statement very clearly. "My God, I see people in this thing!" Miller added that on the morning after the crash, at a briefing, investigators had stated that Mantell died "pursuing an intelligently controlled unidentified flying object." In conclusion, Miller made this statement, "that evening, Air Technical Intelligence Center officers from Wright-Patterson AFB arrived and ordered all personnel to turn over any materials relating to the crash. "Then, after we had turned it over to them, they said they had already completed the investigation." "I was no longer a skeptic. I had been up to that time. Now I wondered why the Government had gone to all of the trouble of covering it up, to keep it away from the press and the public."Very interesting indeed, I see no reason for an officer of the USAF to lie about something like that. Is it true that Mantell actually saw “people in there”, he was the only one at that altitude as his other companions turned back at 22,500 feet. We all know what happened next. Now this from Captain James F. Duesler:
"The wings and tail section had broken off on impact with the ground and were a short distance from the plane," he recalled. "There was no damage to the surrounding trees and it was obvious that there had been no forward or sideways motion when the plane had come down. It just appeared to have "belly flopped" into the clearing. There was very little damaged to the fuselage, which was in one piece, and no signs of blood whatsoever in the cockpit. There was no scratching on the body of the fuselage to indicate any forward movement and the propeller blade bore no telltale scratch marks to show it had been rotating at the time of impact, and one blade had been embedded into the ground. The damage pattern was not consistent with an aircraft of this type crashing at high speed into the ground.
This observation could easily be interpreted as the plane crashed due to hostile actions, something like a force field bringing it down. But lets not assume that, it is only my speculation. Although the UFO left the area by about 3:50 PM it was later reported by multiple witnesses in Tennessee.
3. The Ensuing Investigation Okay, here is where we are at so far, I know this is a lot of information to digest in the first read.
45 minutes after engaging in the pursuit Captain Mantell was dead, still strapped in his aircraft but dead from the extreme forces involved from crashing 30,000 feet back down to Earth near a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky just near the Tennessee-Kentucky border . His watch stopped at 3:18 PM so we can assume that was his time of death as well. The plane was heavily damaged as one would expect. Here are some pictures of the crash….
Official Air Force Conclusion: Captain Thomas Mantell lost consciousness and therefore lost control of his aircraft while pursuing an unknown flying object at high altitude.
Some witness statements surrounding the event:
Glen Mays, who lived near Franklin, KY stated categorically that Mantell's plane exploded in mid-air." The plane circled three times, like the pilot didn’t know where he was going," reported Mays, "and then started down into a dive from about 20,000 feet. About halfway down there was a terrific explosion." Then again, there is the testimony of Godman Base Commander Guy F. Hix, who stated to reporters that he observed the craft for almost an hour through binoculars. He would not have confused what he saw with the planet Venus. www.ufologie.net...
This directly from the Air Force investigation Project Bluebook…
"... based on unpublished reports assembled at the Wright-Patterson Air Force base. The Air Force investigation has proved that the flying saucers "are not a joke." Neither are they a cause for alarm to the population." "a report on new files at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base lists 240 domestic and 30 foreign accounts of flying discs as having been investigated. Of these 30 per cent seem to have been weather balloons and the like and 30 per cent more are perhaps explainable conventionally-leaving 40 per cent unexplained."
Here are some more links to notable witness accounts:
4. Alternate Explanations Inexperience with P-51?
This explanation could be used as a secondary explanation to the crash but not as the primary. This does not account for the visual confirmation of the actual object.
The Mantell Crash was quickly investigated by Project Sign, the Air Force's new research group which had been created to study UFO incidents. Though Project Sign's staff never came to a conclusion, other Air Force investigators ruled that Mantell had misidentified the planet Venus, and, wrongly believing that he could close in to get a better look, had passed out from the lack of oxygen at high altitude. However, this conclusion was later changed, because although Venus was roughly in the same position as the UFO, astronomers working for Project Sign ruled that Venus would have been nearly invisible to observers at that time of day. The cause of Mantell's crash remains officially listed as undetermined by the Air Force.
A Skyhook Balloon?
New Information comes to light…
Updated: 24 August 2007:
In March of 2006, Drew Speier* of WFIE TV in Evansville, Indiana, asked me to help them produce a segment on the Mantell incident for Channel 14. I advised him that there were much better UFO cases and that there was considerable controversy surrounding the case. In hopes of doing other, much better segments in the future, I consented to do the show for the May showing. The show aired on May 23 (transcript). Our thanks to Mr. Speier and WFIE, as we re-opened the case and found some surprising new information. An update by WFIE was "filmed" on June 28th and shown on the 26th of July (transcript). Several official documents indicate that the Skyhook balloon theory does not work.Link to Skyhook launch charts
5. USAF Conclusions and My Research To re-hash what I stated earlier the first official explanation from the USAF by Captain Edward J. Ruppelt was that Mantell lost consciousness while pursuing an unknown object, and thus crashed. This was later changed to a more conventional “balloon theory” (sound familiar?)Here are some interesting contradictions.
But yet he reverses his statement later and becomes one of the prime proponents of the balloon theory? Again doesn't this sound familiar(Roswell in case you haven’t figured out already)?
Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object "which looks metallic and of tremendous size," but others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.
1:45PM CST: Multiple ground witnesses at Godman base report object, visuals range from a “ice cream cone shaped object topped with red” to “like an umbrella with red changing from top to bottom.”
2:45PM CST: Mantell told to intercept, makes visual with object. Godman says the object “dwarfs the size of the planes”. Mantell continues persuit while other planes abandon. States object matches or exceeds his speed.
3:18PM CST: Mantell crashes and dies.
3:20PM CST: Third shift takes over at base and is told they are pursuing a “disc, balloon, or strange object”.
4:05PM CST: Mantells comrades re take flight after refueling not knowing he had crashed.
4:30PM CST: Vanderbilt University astronomer sees an object near Nashville, Tennessee, south-southeast of city.
After this the sightings stopped in the regions. It is interesting to note once again however, that the Skyhook was spotted in Columbia ,Tennessee(at 4:05PM) BEFORE it was spotted in Nashville(at 4:30PM). I live in Columbia, we are about 50 miles south of Nashville. How is this possible? Is it indeed that there was a Skyhook in the area BUT there was also something else? Although other reports from Ohio came later that night they are thought to be unrelated and likely from the planet Venus. Rather or not this is true remains to be proven, although it is likely the explanation for the later Ohio sightings. The problem I have with the Skyhook(one of many problems actually) is that if the UFO was indeed the Skyhook than why was this story allowed to spread and be investigated by Bluebook? One explanation is that the Navy (who owned the project) did not want to be held accountable for Mantells death and thus stayed out of it. But then why do we have some officials saying the balloon was launched from Ohio and others saying Minnesota? The theory, regardless if true or not, is as always with the military a complete mess and puzzle.
6. Final Conclusions
We have here one of the most researched, debated, and publicized UFO-aircraft encounter cases there is. There is a plethora of information but still no final absolute. In fact this is in general terms one of the best UFO cases. But as usual there is serious conflicting reports from both sides (debunkers and believers), with that said there is still enough evidence to make a good judgement on what happened. It all comes down to your core beliefs for most; d you believe or not? It shouldn’t, it should come down to the facts but it is what it is. There are equally good and bad arguments from both sides of this; one side has much documentation,professional opinions, and the status quo. But it has conflicting stories and things that just don’t add up with logic. Like do you really think all these military officials would act like this over a balloon? Why are there so many conflictions of “facts” and change of testimony? Why did this craft seemingly cause a “time warp”(just a metaphor!) by being seen 50 miles south of Nashville BEFORE it was seen I Nashville? Talk about a paradox!
On the other side of the argument you have the expertise of war hardened military officials who were convinced this was something “unknown”, and remember the Skyhook projects weren’t classified, only their launch dates. Why did a two time World War Two medal winner and commander risk his life knowingly for just a balloon or Venus? Logic says he would know the difference. A lot of unusual weather conditions would have had to occur to cause this “balloon” to make some of the flight paths and speed changes it made as well. Why did the head of Bluebook state this was one of the “classic” cases that changed UFOs perception by the military and then recant that later?
What about the “missing” transcripts? On the flip side of this however, you have the documentation and later statements from official and trusted sources offering compelling evidence in favor of a balloon. You have observations from astronomers on the ground in Tennessee describing a Skyhook almost to detail. Then you have the “War Nerves” that are expected immediately after a world war. The biggest thing like always is of course the total lack of a “smoking gun”, the only thing is the transmissions (which are debated) of a dead pilot, witness reports, and circumstantial evidence. All in all this one is pretty even in my opinion, one must look heavily at the facts and decide based not on bias, but logic as to what really happened.
We also must not forget while getting caught up in this research that what ever the cause, rather it be the first UFO caused death or a tragic misunderstanding; that a young human life was lost on that January 7th day in 1948. A family lost their son and brother,friends lost their friends, and the United States lost a soldier. I do pray for him or anyone that I found has died as it is only respectful. Well that’s all I have right now so I hope someone finds this interesting and everybody have a great weekend!
POSTS BY SUBJECT
''ESTONIA'' (15) "Hindenburg" (2) “Yom Kippur” War (1) 2017 Westminster attack (1) 20th_Century (3) 7/7 London bombings (38) 911 (392) A.H.M. RAMSAY (2) Abu Ghraib (1) ADL (1) ADOLF_HITLER (23) ADVENTURE (1) Affirmative Action (1) Afghanistan (7) AFRICA (47) African Origins (1) Agriculture (3) AIDS (25) Al Azhar University (1) Alain de Benoist (15) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (34) Alois Irlmaier (1) AMAZONIA (3) America (4) American Islamization (21) American Universities (2) American_Indian (1) Ancient Egypt (1) ANCIENT_CIVILISATIONS (2) Angels (1) Animal_Rights (6) ANTEDILUVIAN_CIVILISATION (15) Anthony Blunt (1) Anthony Ludovici (3) ANTHROPOLOGY (7) Anti-Semitism (3) Antifa (2) Apartheid (1) AR. LEESE (4) ARCHAEOLOGY (3) Argentina (1) Armenia (4) Armenian Genocide (1) Art (15) Arthur Koestler (1) Astronomy (30) ATHEISM (1) AUSTRALIA (2) AUSTRIA (1) Ayaan Hirsi Ali (3) Baha'i faith (1) BALI (1) Balkans (4) Bangladesh (2) banned_weapons (1) Barbarossa (2) BELGIUM (2) Benjamin Freedman (1) BENJAMIN SOLARI PARRAVICINI (11) Beslan (1) Bill Clinton (1) Biological Warfare (2) Black America (2) BLACK RACE (14) BLOOD PASSOVER (12) BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION (16) Book purge (1) Boycottage (1) Brainwashing (1) BRAZIL (1) BREXIT (1) Brigitte Gabriel (1) British politics (1) Buddhism (5) California (1) Cambodia (8) CANADA (10) CANCER (40) Carolina bays (1) Celebrities-Show Business (3) Cell Phone towers (6) Censorship in Europe (7) Central Europe (1) CENTRAL_ASIA (1) Central/South America (1) Ch. Bollyn (30) Charles Tart (8) Charlie Hebdo (1) Che Guevara (2) CHEMTRAILS (13) CHINA (6) Christian Zionism (1) CHRISTIANISM (46) CHRISTIANISM in EUROPE (1) Churchill (7) CINEMA (2) Circumcision (10) CLIMATE (7) Climate Change (8) cluster bombs/mines (2) Cold Fusion (1) COLD_FUSION (1) COLONIALISM (1) Colonization of Europe (29) Commerce (1) Communism (49) CONGO (5) Consciousness (9) Conspiracies (8) Consumerism (1) contemporary society (11) COPTS (1) Cosmogony (1) Crime (5) Criminal_Sciense (1) CRIMINALITY (2) crop circles (5) CUBA (16) Cultural Marxism (8) DARFUR (3) Dead Sea Scrolls (1) Death penalty in ISLAM (1) Death-Bed Visions (1) DECADANT_ART (1) Deir Yassin (8) Democracy (1) DENMARK (3) Depleted uranium (6) DIAMOND CARTELS (1) DIANA (10) DIETRICH ECKART (1) DILUVIUM (5) Disney (2) DOGS (1) Donald TRUMP (6) Dönmeh (1) Doppelgangers (1) Dresden (6) DRUG ADDICTION (1) E.U. (11) Eastern Europe (1) ECHELON (1) ECONOMY (14) EDUCATION (4) Egypt (11) Eisenhower (4) El Inglés (2) Elie Wiesel (1) Elite_Child_Sex_Rings (16) Elizabeth Taylor (1) ENERGY (9) Enoch Powell (1) environmentalism (10) Ernst Zundel (1) EUROPE viz. ISLAM (10) EUROPE's FUTURE (9) European Parliament (1) EUROPEAN UNION (11) EUROPEAN_IDENTITY (4) Eustace Mullins (10) Evidence for the Afterlife (2) EVOLUTION (9) EXPLORATIONS (1) Ezra Pound (1) Facebook (1) FALSE_HISTORY (2) Fascism (4) Fashion industry (1) FATIMA (9) Female Genital Mutilation (2) FEMINISM (16) FINLAND (2) Fjordman (7) Flight 007 (1) Fluoride (1) Food (11) FRANCE (31) FRANCE viz. ISLAM (4) Francis P. Yockey (5) Frankfurt School (2) Franklin D. Roosevelt (6) freedom of speech (1) Fukushima (2) G7 (1) Gas chambers (1) gay marriage (1) Gaza (1) Geert Wilders (9) GENDERISM (1) genetically modified organisms (GMO) (8) Georges Bensoussan (2) German National Socialism (14) GERMANY (45) GERMANY viz. ISLAM (3) Gilad Atzmon (11) Global warming (2) Globalism (5) Great Britain (59) Great Pyramid (16) GREECE (2) GREENPEACE (3) Guatemala (1) Guillaume Faye (1) Gulag (3) Gulf War (1) Gulf War Syndrome (1) Gun control (1) Guylaine Lanctot (2) HAARP (10) Hans Günther (8) Harry Potter (1) HEALTH (114) HEMP (1) Henry Makow (2) Hidden History (15) HIDDEN HYPNOSIS TECHNIQUES (1) Hiroshima (5) Historical Review (67) History_of_IDEAS (3) HMS Hampshire (3) Hollow Earth (22) Hollywood (11) Holocaust (140) HOLODOMOR_1932-33 (17) Homosexuality (6) Horst Mahler (4) Howard Hughes (1) Human Equality (1) HUMAN_ORIGINS (2) HUMAN_RIGHTS (2) Humanitarian politics (1) Humorous (2) HUNGARY (2) HYPERBOREA (7) IAN STEVENSON (13) ICELAND (1) Image of Guadalupe (2) Immigration (18) IMPORTANT (5) INDIA (24) IndoEuropean (12) Indonesia (4) INFECTIOUS DISEASES EPIDEMICS (1) Infrasound Weapons (1) Intellectual_freedom (1) Intelligence (19) Intelligent design (8) International Criminal Tribunal (3) INTERNET (2) INTERRACIAL_RELATIONS (1) INTIMIDATION (3) INVENTIONS (3) IQ (3) IRAN (11) Iranian regime violence (1) IRAQ (22) IRAQ_war (11) IRELAND (2) ISLAM (328) Islam in Europe/America (92) ISLAM in RUSSIA (1) ISLAM propagandists (4) ISLAMIST INTIMIDATION (24) ISLAMIST_VIOLENCE (41) ISLAMIZATION OF EUROPE (71) Islamophobia (6) ISRAEL (129) Israel Supreme Court (1) ISRAEL-ARAB RELATIONS (9) ISRAEL's_ATOMIC_BOMB (4) ISRAEL/EU RELATIONS (1) ITALY (7) J.Kaminski (4) Japan (2) Jewish History (1) Jewish Question (1) JEWS (116) JEWS in GERMANY (1) JEWS/ISRAEL-USA_relations (53) JFK Assassination (28) JFK/RFK (2) Jihad (15) Jo Cox (6) Joe Sobran (4) John Bryant (17) John Lear (3) Journalists (2) Julius Evola (38) Jyllands-Posten newspaper (1) Kafirs (1) Karl Marx (1) Katie King (1) Katyn (11) Kennedys (1) KENYA (1) Kevin MacDonald (38) KHAZARs (1) Knut Hamsun (1) Kurdistan (2) KURDS (2) Lasha Darkmoon (13) Laurel Canyon (4) Layla Anwar (4) LEBANON (3) LEFT (17) Liberalism (1) Lord Kitchener (4) Lord Northcliff (1) Lost Civilisations (2) Lost Technology (1) LYDDA (1) MADELEINE McCANN (4) Magic (1) Magnesium (7) Mahathir (1) Mahatma Gandhi (4) Malaysia (2) Manchester Terror Attack (1) Manchester terrorist attack (11) Manipulation (69) MAPS (1) Mark Weber (10) Mass immigration_Multiculturalism (33) Mass_Media (3) Mass-Psychology (3) Massacres (1) May-June 2017 London Jihadist attacks (4) Medjugorje apparitions (3) METEMPSYCHOSIS (17) MEXICO (1) MH370 (2) MIDDLE EAST (44) Military Tribunal at Nuremberg (11) MIND CONTROL (26) MONEY-Banking (8) Monsanto (9) Morality (1) Mormonism (1) Mortacracy (6) MULTICULTURALISM (5) MUSIC MAFIA (2) Muslim Brotherhood (5) Muslim Honor Killings (1) Muslim Persecution of Christians (2) MUSLIMS IN EUROPE (72) Mussolini (3) Mysterious (69) Mysterious_SKY (1) Nathuram Godse (3) National Memorial and Arboretum (1) Native Americans (1) Neapolis (1) NESSIE (17) Netherlands (10) New World Order (4) NEW_ZEALAND (1) NGOs (2) Nicolai Sennels (1) no-go zones (2) NOAM CHOMSKY (4) Nonie Darwish (13) North Africa (3) NORWAY (2) Norway massacre (5) NUCLEAR (12) Nutrition (20) Obama (2) Occult Symbols (21) Oklahoma City bombing (7) OLYMPIC_GAMES (13) OPINION (9) Orel_Yiftachel (5) Organized Jewry (10) P. Buchanan (26) PACIFISM (1) PAEDOPHILIA (15) Paganism (2) PAKISTAN (2) PALESTINE 1944-1948 (1) Palestinians (18) PARIS (1) Patrice Lumumba (1) PATRICIA HEARST (2) Patton (2) Paul Craig Roberts (1) Paul Weston (9) PEARL HARBOR (1) Persecuted Christians (7) PERSONALITIES (1) Philosophy of Civilization (1) Photographic_Archive (1) Photography (2) Physics (9) POLAND (5) POLAR REGIONS (30) Poliomyelitis (8) Political Thought (52) Pollution (3) Polynesia (25) Pope Benedict (1) Popular Culture (2) POPULATION FORECAST (2) Pornography (2) PORTUGAL (6) PREHISTORY (28) propaganda (3) Prophecies (14) Psychedelics (66) PSYCHIATRY (10) Psychical Research (124) Psychology (6) QATAR (2) QUEBEC (1) Queen Victoria (1) R.R.Rife (10) Race (131) RACE MIXING (1) Racism (4) RAPE statistics (1) RED_Alert (4) Religion (27) René Guénon (1) Revilo Oliver (16) Richard Dawkins (1) Riyadh address to the Muslim world (1) Robert Faurisson (1) Rockefellers (1) Roger Garaudy (6) Roman Catholic Church (12) Ron Paul (7) Rudolph Hess (1) Ruling_by_CORRUPTION (14) RUSSIA (8) RUSSIAN REVOLUTION (1) RWANDA (31) S. H. Pearson (1) Sabra-Shatila massacre (10) Sandy Hook (1) Sanskrit (1) SAUDI ARABIA (6) Savitri Devi (27) Scandinavia (1) SCIENCE (45) Secret Military Technology (14) Secret weapons (10) Sedition Trial (1) SERBIA (1) sexual freedom (6) Sexualization of Culture (6) Sinister sites (11) Skepticism (1) Slave trade (1) SOUTH AFRICA (10) Space/Apollo_Hoax (54) SPAIN (3) Spanish Civil War (1) Spengler (6) Spirituality (1) Srebrenica (1) STALINISM (1) State_criminality (8) Steganography (16) Steven Yates (7) STRANGE SOUNDS (4) Subterranean_world (10) SUDAN (2) SUPERNATURAL (16) Surveillance (1) SWASTIKA (33) Swaziland (1) SWEDEN (15) Switzerland (1) SYRIA (8) Taj Mahal (13) Ted Kaczynski (1) Terrorism (43) TESLA (6) The 1001 Club (1) The Celts (1) The Cultural Integration Initiative (1) THE END OF WHITE RACE (20) The Great Flood (8) The Irish Savant (9) The Mass Rape of German Women by the Red Army (1) The Nuremberg Trials (5) The plutonium injections (4) the Wealth of Nations (2) Theo van Gogh (1) Thought of the Right (63) TITANIC (72) Tommy Robinson (1) Torture (1) Tradition (5) Transatlantic Slave Trade (1) Transcendent Experience (6) Tunguska (1) Tunisia (2) TURKEY (8) TWA flight 800 (1) U.S.A. (143) U.S.A. ARMY CRIMINALITY (18) U.S.A. Foreign policy (14) U.S.A. Military (2) U.S.A._EDUCATION (1) U.S.A._HISTORY (2) U.S.A._POLITICS (12) U.S.A._SOCIETY (10) U.S.A.-CIA (12) U.S.A.-Power Structure (7) U.S.S. Liberty (8) UFOs (166) Ukraine (15) United Church of Christ (1) United Nations (3) UNKNOWN_EARTH (2) USA (3) USA_Press (2) USA/USSR_relations (2) USS San Francisco (1) USSR (55) Vaccination (1) VATICAN (12) Vatican II (3) VELIKOVSKY (2) Vernon Coleman (14) Voynich_manuscript (15) WAFA SULTAN (1) War Crimes (36) water (2) Wayne MADSEN (2) WEST (16) WEST viz. ISLAM (11) WEST/ISLAM Relations (22) Western Masochism (1) WESTERN_ELITES (4) White Guilt (1) White phosphorous (1) White Race (7) WILD_LIFE (1) Wilhelm Reich (4) William Gough (10) wind farms (1) Wm F. Koch (8) Women in Islam (8) World Wildlife Fund (8) WORLD_ORDER (57) WWI (6) WWII (98) WWII Aftermath (42) WWIII (1) Younger Dryas Ice Age (4) Yugoslavia (8) Zimbabwe (1) ZIONISM (12)