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Tuesday, August 12, 2014

911 - The Twin Towers' Dust Clouds

The Twin Towers' Dust Clouds

The shredding of each of the Twin Towers was hidden behind dense clouds of concrete dust that billowed out from the moment each towers' top began its plunge. These clouds first emerged from the towers from around the crash zones, and grew rapidly as they descended. The clouds grew to several times each tower's intact volume before they even reached the ground, and continued to grow after each of the towers had vanished.

From across the Hudson, people watched the burgeoning North Tower dust cloud engulf the 500-foot tall World Financial Center buildings.
The dust clouds reached the ground about 12 seconds after each tower started to collapse. Then they raced out in all directions. The explosion of the South Tower at 9:59 AM took bystanders by surprise, and many had to run for their lives. Some reported being picked up by the dense cloud. New York Daily News photographer David Handschuh recalled: "I got down to the end of the block and turned the corner when a wave-- a hot, solid, black wave of heat threw me down the block. It literally picked me up off my feet and I wound up about a block away." Others escaped into the temporary shelters of storefronts. All reported that there was complete darkness once the dust cloud had overtaken them.
The monstrous dust clouds helped to give the attack on Manhattan the feeling of a Hollywood movie, despite the carnage being all too real.
The dust clouds provide important clues about how the towers were destroyed. Researcher Jim Hoffman used estimates of the volume of the dust cloud from the North Tower to compute a lower bound of the energy involved in the destruction. His argument is that, barring the involvement of explosives, and after factoring out possible contributions of mixing, the expansion of the dust cloud early in the event required the input of vast quantities of heat energy, either to expand the gases thermodynamically, or to vaporize moisture. He estimates that the minimum energy required was on the order of 1.5 gigawatt-hours.
e x c e r p t
title: The North Tower's Dust Cloud: Analysis of Energy Requirements for the Expansion of the Dust Cloud Following the Collapse of 1 World Trade Center
authors: Jim Hoffman
... I made estimates based on photographs taken at approximately 30 seconds after the onset of the collapse. The photo in Figure 1 appears to have been taken around 30 seconds after the initiation of the collapse of the North Tower. The fact that the spire is visible directly behind Building 7 indicates the photo was not taken later than the 30 seconds, since video records show that the spire started to collapse at around 29 seconds. In this photograph, as in other ones taken around that time, the dust clouds still have distinct boundaries.
Figure 1. Photograph from Chapter 5 of FEMA's Building Performance Assessment Report.
...

Summary

The dominant energy source assumed to be in play during the leveling of each of the Twin Towers was the gravitational energy due to their elevated mass. The energy sinks included the thorough pulverization of each tower's concrete, the vaporization of water, and the heating of air and suspended concrete dust in the ensuing dust cloud. Estimates for these energies are:
energy, KWH source or sink
+ 111,000 falling of mass (1.97e11 g falling average of 207 m)
- 135,000 crushing of concrete (9e10 g to 60 micron powder)
ignoring water vaporization
- 400,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 1020 K)
- 11,300,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 1020 K)
assuming water vaporization sink was not supply-limited
- 1,496,000 vaporization of water (2.38e9 g water)
- 41,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 373 K)
- 1,145,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 373 K)
...

Conclusion

The amount of energy required to expand the North Tower's dust cloud was many times the entire potential energy of the tower's elevated mass due to gravity. The over-tenfold disparity between the most conservative estimate and the gravitational energy is not easily dismissed as reflecting uncertainties in quantitative assessments.
The official explanation that the Twin Tower collapses were gravity-driven events appears insufficient to account for the documented energy flows.

911 - Why was there Molten Metal Under Ground Zero for Months after 9/11?

Why was there Molten Metal Under Ground Zero for Months after 9/11? 

http://georgewashington.blogspot.gr/2005/12/why-was-there-molten-metal-under.html

Molten metal flowed underneath ground zero for months after the Twin Towers collapsed:

New York firefighters recalled in a documentary film, "heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel."

A NY firefighter described molten steel flowing at ground zero, and said it was like a "foundry" or like "lava".

A public health advisor who arrived at Ground Zero on September 12, said that "feeling the heat" and "seeing the molten steel" there reminded him of a volcano.
 
To some, it was an environmental health disaster from the very first. “Standing down there, with your eyes closed,” says Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11th but didn’t arrive to the Ground Zero the site until the night of September 12th, “it could have been a tornado or an avalanche or a volcano.”

A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. “Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s and the thousands who fled that disaster,” he said.

“It could have been a tornado or an avalanche or a volcano.”


An employee of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue witnessed "Fires burn[ing and molten steel flow[ing] in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet." (1)

The head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reported, "Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."

According to a worker involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at ground zero, "Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6."

An expert stated about World Trade Center building 7, "A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" (pay-per-view). Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them.

A rescue worker "crawled through an opening and down crumpled stairwells to the subway five levels below ground. He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam"

A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams." (3)

A structural engineer who worked for the Trade Center's original designer saw "streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole." (pages 31-32)

An engineer stated in the September 3, 2002 issue of The Structural Engineer, "They showed us many fascinating slides ranging from molten metal, which was still red hot weeks after the event."

An Occupational Safety and Health Administration Officer at the Trade Center reported a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, "its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel."

A witness said “In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel”

The structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, described fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks (page 3).

According to a member of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing, who was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, "One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots."

A retired professor of physics and atmospheric science said "in mid-October when they would pull out a steel beam, the lower part would be glowing dull red, which indicates a temperature on the order of 500 to 600 °C. And we know that people were turning over pieces of concrete in December that would flash into fire--which requires about 300 °C. So the surface of the pile cooled rather rapidly, but the bulk of the pile stayed hot all the way to December."

A fireman stated that there were "oven" like conditions at the trade centers six weeks after 9/11.

Firemen and hazardous materials experts also stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires." (pay-per-view)

A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains...."

New York mayor Rudy Giuliani said "They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days."

As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O'Toole saw a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, "was dripping from the molten steel."

Indeed, the trade center fire was "the longest-burning structural fire in history", even though it rained heavily on September 14, 2001 and again on September 21, 2001, and the fires were sprayed with high tech fire-retardands, and "firetrucks [sprayed] a nearly constant jet of water on" ground zero."

Indeed, "You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake."


See also witness statements at the beginning of this video.

For one explanation of why there was molten metal under ground zero for months after 9/11, see this paper. Also see this essay showing that the post-collapse temperatures under Building 7 were very similar to those under Buildings 1 and 2, even though Buildings 1 and 2 were much higher.
=========
(1)
K-9/11
Tracking the Rescuers’ Trauma



Even before the twin towers of the World Trade Center fell, Sarah Atlas and her canine partner, Anna, a black-faced German shepherd, were deployed by New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue. By the end of the day on September 11, they were at Ground Zero, where they stayed for ten days in a fruitless search for survivors.
“The [NYFD] people who called us had been killed,” Atlas considered as she surveyed the tons and acres of wreckage. “Nobody’s going to be alive.” Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet. She wore a respirator to filter out the smoke, dust, and fumes, but Anna worked without a mask to sniff out places where the broken dead lay. Anna is a live-find dog, but she developed a “truly intent stare” that Atlas came to recognize as her response to catching the scent of a corpse. Mostly they found parts.
“These dogs were exposed to huge amounts of known toxins and unthinkable amounts of unknown ones,” says Cynthia Otto, an associate professor in the vet school. Otto is leading a three-year study of the dogs, funded largely by the American Kennel Club.
Anna is part of the study and has been diagnosed with discospondylitis, a bacterial infection in the spinal column. A young dog, she can no longer climb and jump, and has been retired from search and rescue. “The first six weeks after we got home,” reports Atlas, “she just sat around and stared off into space. She’s still not the happy-go-lucky dog she was.”
But it’s not just the animals. The handlers may have worn masks and respirators but that doesn’t mean they were completely protected. When she returned to her home in New Jersey, Atlas began having nightmares, couldn’t remember things, and struggled to find words—even to just say hello. “I couldn’t find my house,” she recalls, “and when I pulled into my driveway the burgundy [walls] hurt my eyes, because all we saw for ten days was gray.” Soon after, she was hospitalized with pneumonia and later diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).
Melissa Hunt, G’90, Gr’96, associate director of clinical training in the psychology department, was delivering a talk at the vet school about some research she’d been doing on people whose pets had died. Otto approached her after the lecture and invited Hunt to sign on to monitor the emotional health of the dog handlers.
The study uses surveys and interviews to probe for psychological aftershocks that sometimes follow upheavals of extreme stress. “We already have statistically significant results,” Hunt states of comparisons with K-9 search specialists who were not dispatched to Ground Zero or the Pentagon. “The people who were deployed have more depressive symptoms, more anxious symptoms, and more post-traumatic stress symptoms. There’s no question that having gone through those experiences has taken a psychological toll.”
Researchers are conducting structured phone interviews to determine whether the hallmark symptoms being reported—insomnia, nightmares, feelings of numbness, fatigue, being more easily startled or more anxious about the well-being of their dogs—add up to the formal diagnostic criteria for PTSD and other disorders. “Eyeballing the interview data” suggests that many handlers have suffered emotionally from the experience, Hunt says, but most are not presenting a “clinically significant dysfunction.”
Initially, Hunt assumed that psychic trauma would come from seeing gristly sites, but that is turning out to be not quite right. Those who cope best seem to be handlers who have been able to pull meaning out of their search efforts, either those working with cadaver-find dogs who had “successful” missions or those with live-find dogs who could invest recovering the dead with significance. One handler of a dog trained to sniff out survivors reported finding a “piece of flesh,” which he knew would lead to the identification of a family member through DNA testing. “He had a framework for understanding that he had done something that was really valuable,” observes Hunt, “something that was going to be very helpful to living people.”
The study’s findings are preliminary, and any long-term reverberations are only just beginning to be felt. “I think what we’re going to learn from this study is a lot about human vulnerability and human resilience,” Hunt affirms.
“It doesn’t seem real,” Atlas muses, “and yet it does. I’ve been back twice.”
At press time, we learned that Anna had died on August 2. —Editor
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/summer2002/k911.html
=================
 (2)



Mobilizing Public Health
Turning Terror's Tide with Science

Responding to the September outbreak of terrorism in America, senior School leadership launched in late October a new comprehensive public health initiative to tackle the complex scientific, social, and governmental issues raised by bioterrorism.

"The School recognizes that this is a national public health emergency. The School has, in many ways, unequaled expertise in the issues related to the acute and urgent problem of anthrax bioterrorism and the longer range strategic issues related to all manner of terrorism," says Dean Al Sommer, MD, MHS '73. "Whether it comes through letters or aerosol sprays or poisoning of water or the food system, it's the responsibility of the School to come to our nation's defense."

In the coming months, more than 60 faculty members will work on bioterrorism preparedness, devise new technologies for detecting anthrax, determine the best therapies, study available antibiotics, and recommend how to best contain outbreaks of anthrax and other biologic, chemical, and nuclear hazards.

The School has a three-pronged goal of providing a scientific basis for rational action, timely and accurate advice for the public and professionals, and training modules for targeted audiences, delivered by the Web, simulcasts, and CD-ROMs.

The new initiative, called Public Health Scientists Working to Address Terrorism (SWAT), will work closely with a related University-wide effort. Thomas Burke, PhD, MPH, an associate professor in Health Policy and Management, is the initiative's director. Other steering committee members include Biostatistics professor Ron Brookmeyer, PhD; International Health professor Don Burke, MD; Environmental Health Sciences professor Lynn Goldman, MD, MPH '81; and Tara O'Toole, MD, MPH '88, the director of the Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies. Two to four faculty members from each of the School's nine departments have been asked to devote the next month or two to providing immediate input to the effort. The initiative will draw on the broad spectrum of the School's expertise, including surveillance, environmental assessment and clean-up, infectious disease and antimicrobial resistance, vaccine development and testing, legal issues, disaster management, and communication.

The short-term efforts do not mean abandoning the School's long-standing research and teaching priorities, according to Sommer. Rather, the short-term work is a "unique activity in the history of the School in response to an urgent national need," he says. "I don't know of any time in the School's history that this has been done."

Thomas Burke envisions teams of public health researchers, focusing on specific areas and providing technical assistance and guidance and help with communication between the government, public health professionals, and the public. The teams would also bring public health risk assessment, epidemiology, and other tools to provide advice on treatment and management of both patients and the "worried well."

Front-line professionals from across the nation will come to the School for seminars on the latest knowledge in public health preparedness. "You bring in the best and brightest to help them understand the threats and how to attack and ultimately manage them," Burke says.

A former deputy commissioner of health in New Jersey, Burke has seen firsthand the decay in the public health infrastructure through his work and research for reports by the Pew Environmental Health Commission and the Institute of Medicine. He recently secured a $1 million grant from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to design a center of excellence in environmental health practice.

"Right now, the School has all these pockets of expertise," Burke says. "The task is to pull them all together." - Brian W. Simpson


Danger in the Dust


It is 4 a.m. in New York City as four researchers from the School enter the site of the World Trade Center disaster on foot. Each is lugging from 50 to 90 pounds of air-monitoring equipment onto Ground Zero. In the dark, the tangled pile of wreckage takes on a distinctly hellish cast.

"Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense," reports Alison Geyh, PhD. "In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."

Geyh, an assistant scientist with the School's Department of Environmental Health Sciences (EHS), heads the team of scientists sent by the School in response to a request by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences for a coordinated study of the disaster's potential health effects to those in the immediate environment. By attaching personal air monitors to the workers and by placing stationary air sampling pumps outside the periphery of Ground Zero, Geyh (pronounced "Guy") and her colleagues can determine the density of the particulate matter in the air, the size of those particles, and any short-term health effects to those at and around the site.

"This is an incredible situation," she reports. "The recovery and clean-up efforts are going on around the clock. Hundreds of people are at the site every day; and many of them have been there since Sept. 11. Workers at the site want to know what they are breathing and what to do to protect themselves."


This project is "clearly among the most energy-draining experiences of their lives."
- John Groopman
Since the drivers and equipment operators are working in two 12-hour shifts, the researchers must start early and stay late. "None of the monitors can be left out overnight," says Geyh, "so around midnight we retrieve everything and take the equipment back to the hotel, where we recalibrate it before going to bed." The whole thing recommences at 4 a.m.

"People have been coming back really frazzled," says John Groopman, PhD. "It's clearly among the most energy-draining experiences of their lives." Groopman, Anna Baetjer Professor and chair of EHS, knows of no analogous research situation. "The fact that thousands of bodies are still hidden in the rubble makes the work very tense [and] changes the tenor of everything."

At every stage of the clean-up operation, plumes of dust and smoke are sent skyward. The Hopkins scientists are also gearing up to measure air quality in the nearby neighborhoods and to enter residences around Ground Zero to collect and study samples of the dust originally produced by the collapse, which has sifted into buildings throughout lower Manhattan. - Rod Graham
http://www.jhsph.edu/Publications/Special/Welch.htm

==========

 (3)
The Atlantic Monthly | July/August 2002

77 North Washington Street



hortly after the terrorist attacks against the United States last September, The Atlantic's longtime correspondent William Langewiesche made contact with officials in the New York City department responsible for the recovery and removal effort at the World Trade Center site. Langewiesche's request was straightforward: he wanted unfettered, round-the-clock physical access to the site; free access to supervisors and workers there; and access to the meetings of city officials, engineers, construction companies, and consultants.

Unexpectedly, this request was granted, immediately and in full. Langewiesche became the only journalist to be "embedded"—to use the Pentagon term for reporters who live and travel with the units they cover—in the World Trade Center operation. In all he spent nine months at the site. The result is "American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center," a three-part series that begins in this issue. It is the longest piece of original reporting ever undertaken by The Atlantic Monthly. Later this year the three articles commissioned by the magazine will be assembled into a book and published under the same title by North Point Press, a division of Farrar, Straus & Giroux.

==============

911 - Scott Forbes Interview

Scott Forbes Interview

Scott Forbes is a Senior Database Administrator for Fiduciary Trust and used to work in the South Tower of the WTC. This interview with him began last September and was conducted through a series of instant messaging and e-mails. Scott can be reached at:
scottforbes2002@hotmail.com




Killtown: Scott, you have an interesting story to tell. Where were you working the week before 9/11?

Scott Forbes: In my office on the 97th floor in WTC 2 (South Tower), as usual except that myself and a lot of my colleagues were also working the weekend of 9/8 and 9/9.

KT: Why were you working the weekend before 9/11?

SF: Because of a "power down" notified by the Port Authority. Power was being switched off for a 36hr period in the top half of tower and as I work for a Financial Institution and Bank in the Technology Group I was working on the shutdown and eventually the startup of all our systems.

KT: Was it unusual for you to be working on the weekend?

SF: I suppose at that time I would have been working one weekend in every 6 or 8 weeks, so it was not unheard of. Working in Technology you get used to working 'out of business hours.' I guess what was odd about this weekend was that as all power was going down then all of our systems were being shutdown. This was extreme and unprecedented.

KT: Who were you working for and what was your position there?

SF: Fiduciary Trust, an Investment Bank, who had just been acquired by the Franklin Templeton Group and I was (and am) a Senior DBA or Database Administrator.

KT: So you are an IT personnel?

SF: Yes.

KT: How long did you work in the WTC 2 before 9/11?

SF: I started in the company as a consultant in June 1998 and I joined full time in December 1998.

KT: During all this time, how many times did the WTC have a "power down"?

SF: None in Tower 2 that I was aware of. We had a backup Generator for our Data Center on floor 97 in the event of an unplanned power outage but it had not been used during my time in the company. You have to understand how unprecedented the power down was. To shutdown all of our financial systems, all inter-related and with connections and feeds to may outside vendors and suppliers was a major piece of work. Additionally, the power outage meant that many of the 'ordinary' building features were not operating, such as security locks on doors, cameras, lighting, etc.

KT: How many floors did this power down effect?

SF: I can't give you the absolute numbers, but I know it was the 'top half ' of WTC 2, so I'd say from floor 50 or so.

KT: Was there a power down in the WTC 1 also?

SF: Not to my knowledge.

KT: Did you think that was kind of odd that one tower (South) had a power down and the other one (North) didn't?

SF: Not really - I remember that we were notified some 3 or 4 weeks in advance by the Port Authority-NY/NJ that there would be a power outage - so we had to co-ordinate and plan efforts in the IT departments to ensure we had everything shut down in time and ready to restart. Frankly at the time I didn't think about WTC 1.

KT: What did the Port Authority say the power down was for?

SF: As far as I recall it was for re-cabling, though I don't remember the wording on official documents or the detail, as I wasn't in the Management Loop.

KT: What did they say the "re-cabling" was for?

SF: I understood it was something to do with the power supplies.

KT: Did you think it was odd that they had to power down for "re-cabling?"

SF: Well at the time I didn't question it -- neither did anyone else. We just got on with the work that needed to be done. There was a lot of mumbling and grumbling, I certainly remember that, and I got the Tuesday off in lieu of 9/11, so I was at home watching events unfold from my my apartment window on that day.

KT: You had gotten the day of on 9/11, was this because you worked the previous weekend?

SF: Yes.

KT: If your company hadn't scheduled you to work that weekend, would you normally have been at work that Tuesday?

SF: Yes and I was usually in the office at 7 am EST, so I would have been there for sure. In fact on 9/11 my first response after the first plane hit WTC 1 was to call my office and speak to my colleagues.

KT: Your company, Fiduciary Trust, is located on floors 90, 94-97, correct?

SF: Yes, we were located on those floors. The Executive Offices were on 90, 94-97 were Administration Offices, with the Data Center and Tech Staff on floor 97.

KT: Did you normally work mainly on the 97th floor, or did you work on all of those floors?

SF: 97 was my floor, but inevitably I was on all floors for staff meetings, etc.

KT: Had you or any of your colleagues ever heard or experienced a power down before?

SF: No, except when the bomb went off in the car park in '93.

KT: Did the Port Authority ever say if they were going to power down the bottom half of the WTC 2?

SF: No, not that I recall.

KT: I was reading an article about the WTC saying that it was not very modern in terms of it's high tech infrastructure. Is that true?

SF: Correct, not if you compare the WTC to recently built and opened buildings. It was a little dated and faded which I liked actually.

KT: Why is that?

SF: The building was retro, some of the features were so old, like the central heating and a/c systems, which were really really bad and inefficient.

KT: I read about how it was very expensive to heat and cool the towers.

SF: Yes, in summer the heat inside the building could be really bad. We had a manual way of setting up fans on desks to keep the air circulating around the floors.

KT: Besides the "power down" the weekend before 9/11, was there any other unusual activity going on related to the WTC? There was one guy, Ben Fountain, who worked on the 47 floor of the WTC 2 who said there was an unusual amount of evacuation drills. Did you experience any of those?

SF: We had regular fire/evacuation drills, but not an unusual number.

KT: How often were those and when was the last one before 9/11?

SF: I couldn't tell you the frequency or when the last one was held, I just can't remember, sorry.

KT: Back to the weekend of the "power down," when did they turn the power off and when did they turn it back on?

SF: Off on Saturday afternoon - around 12 noon I think - and back on at about 2 pm on the Sunday (my timings on this are hazy).

KT: When you were working these two days, did you notice anything suspicious going on in or around the WTC?

SF: Well there were several guys in overalls, carrying building gear, toolboxes, etc inside the building. Remember there were no security locks on doors or security cameras, so access was free unless a door was locked by a manual key. Seeing so many 'strangers' who didn't work at the WTC was unusual.

I'd make one other point at this juncture also, because of the power down backups of system were an absolute necessity and they would have been taken offsite for security. Because of the power outage all our systems backups had to be 100% valid and available in case of an emergency. These were taken offsite, like normal, for security.

KT: So the people you saw coming in and out of the building, did they have badges and what were their ethnic makeup, were they Arab?

SF: No ethnic consistency at all and I don't remember any badges or labels of any sort.

KT: Where did you see all these strange workers? Was it just the floors you were working on that Saturday and Sunday, or also in the lobbies and elevators and what floors were you working on that Saturday and Sunday?

SF: I was working on the 97th floor and as I recall I saw guys in the main lobby, on the ground floor and in the elevator lobby on floor 76. This was on the Saturday.

KT: You mentioned you didn't notice them wearing any badges. Is this unusual? I take it there must be a lot of construction going on in the WTC from time to time. Do construction workers not need identity badges?

SF: They would all need to have stick-on badges, with their photo and name. I can't remember seeing those badges or not.

KT: After 9/11, did anybody you worked with or know in the building also notice these strange workers running around on Saturday and Sunday?

SF: Well anyone who worked those days saw them. After 9/11, things were a blur.

KT: When did you know that you would have Tuesday, the day of 9/11 off?

SF: On the Monday, I was taking off Friday but I swapped it with a colleague, who got out on 9/11 unscathed fortunately.

KT: So you were scheduled to work that Tuesday?

SF: Originally yes, but I swapped a day off with a colleague, so I had Tuesday off and he was in the Office.

KT: So in a sense, and for a lack of a better word, you were really lucky to be off that day?

SF: Very lucky. Usually I was in the office at 7 am and having breakfast with colleagues in the 96th floor cafeteria by 8:30 am. In fact one of my colleagues was there in the cafe when the first plane hit the Tower 1. He watched it coming in over Manhattan.

KT: He saw it coming? How did you find this out?

SF: Well he survived and we talked about it often. We used to joke about the planes over Manhattan and that one day one would hit the Trade Center. He ran from the cafe and took his colleagues from his team and left the building. Had he not seen the plane with his own eyes, he and his team would have been far more relaxed I'm sure.

KT: Was this the same colleague you swapped days with?

SF: No.

KT: Can you tell us real quick where the colleague you swapped with was at the time of the plane crash and how he managed to escape?

SF: He was at his desk on the 97th floor, looking South toward the statue of liberty. He heard the plane hit the other tower and just picked up his backpack and left our tower by elevator. I had other colleagues who did not leave so quickly -- some survived, others did not.

KT: How many people from your company did not make it out of there that morning?

SF: 89 were lost I believe. 20 from my department. [See list]

KT: So a lot of these people must of been your friends and also colleagues you worked with and saw everyday at work?

SF: Yes, many close friends.

KT: One thing I have to ask is when I was reviewing those from your company who perished that day, it seemed to me that no high-level employees in your company -- such as managers, directors, VP's, etc -- were among the victims. Was I reading that right?

SF: Not quite. Certainly in my department six of the 20 were managers. However it is a statement of fact that no Directors or VP's were lost.

KT: Of the floors your company occupied in the WTC 2, floors 90, 94-97, were most of your executives on the 90th floor?

SF: Yes.

KT: Do you know if most of the executives from your company were in the building when the plane crashed?

SF: Frankly I don't know. I know some were absent from the building and some were in the building and escaped.

KT: Were you at home on 9/11? Can you tell us what you were doing up to the time you heard about the 1st plane crash?

SF: I was at home having coffee when I heard the 1st plane hit the North tower. I thought it was a car crash on the street below (I lived on the 15th floor) and so I went to the window and opened the blind to look down (the blinds were closed due to the bright sunshine) and there in front of me I saw the smoke coming from the North Tower.



Forbes' apartment in relation to the WTC. (See map)



KT: What did you immediately think about what happened to the North Tower?

SF: I thought it was explosion from the windows on the world restaurant, but I turned on my TV and coincidentally at the same time the news programme began showing the event from the northern direction and gave out the news that a plane had hit.

KT: Did the news say what kind of plane?

SF: A "passenger jet" I believe.

KT: Do you remember about how long it was after you heard the crash until the news said it was a passenger jet?

SF: Almost instantly.

KT: After you heard a plane had crashed there, did you think anything suspicious of it, or just a freak accident?

SF: No, I didn't think it was an accident - I was highly suspicious, so much so that I called the office, spoke to colleagues and told them to get out right away.

KT: Just to be clear, you were suspicious right away after the 1st plane crash into the North Tower and before the 2nd plane crashed?

SF: Yes.

KT: Can you elaborate why you felt suspicious right away?

SF: It just didn't seem right. Commercial passenger jets don't crash seemingly intentionally in clear bright sunshine in Manhattan.

KT: So it was mostly a "gut feeling"?

SF: Yes. Then when the second plane hit the South Tower, I immediately thought about the power down condition in the South Tower that previous weekend and I watched the second plane coming in over New York Bay from over Staten Island, miles away.

KT: Were you able to get a close look of the 2nd plane coming in, or did you just see it's silhouette?

SF: It would have been about 1.5 miles away from my apartment at its closest. I saw it for some time, not closely, but for some time.

KT: Were you able to make out what kind of plane it was, or from what airlines?

SF: No, I couldn't tell what kind of plane or what airline it was - all I could tell was that it was a two engine jetliner going extremely fast.

KT: Did you have any idea what type of plane it was (commercial airliner, military, large, small)?

SF: No, actually my naivety made me think it was a tanker of some kind, coming in to drop water on the flames from the North Tower!

KT: Let me back up a bit, after the 1st plane crash, did you try to call any of your colleagues in the WTC?

SF: Yes. I called the guy I sat next to -- his number was the first I could remember -- he answered and I spoke to him and one other. They had heard the crash, rushed to the windows and saw the smoke but didn't know what it was. I was able to tell them and I told them to get out right away.

KT: Did they leave right away?

SF: Some did and some didn't. Some took elevators and some took the stairs.

KT: Did you feel that you probably had helped save some of their lives by telling them to leave right away and did you happen to know anybody in the North Tower?

SF: I knew no one in the North Tower and I don't think I helped anyone. In fact in retrospect I wonder why I didn't call more people.

KT: The next question I want to get at is there have been lots of reports of people in the WTC's said that they heard popping noises, rumblings, and other noises associated to explosions going off in the buildings. Did anybody you have talked to that were in the WTC on 9/11 speak of this too?

SF: Not directly that I spoke to, but I am aware of one member of staff who was lost whose wife reported that he told her on the phone that explosions were going off.

KT: Do you have any idea at what time he was talking to her or what time he heard these explosions going off?

SF: Between 9:15 am and 9:58 am approx - you can read her account of the conversation in the New York Times archive [See: Edmund McNally]

KT: What floor was he on?

SF: 97th.

KT: There have been reports of explosions in the basements of both towers and video evidence shows damage in both lobby areas which looks a bomb went off. Did anybody you know who escaped from the South Tower ever mention any damage to the lobby area?

SF: No, apart from broken glass from the plane impacts and crashing elevators. Several elevators cables were broken/slashed so they crashed to the ground.

KT: Are you still in contact with anybody who escaped from the South Tower?

SF: Yes.

KT: Has any of these people, or anybody else who was in the South Tower for that matter, have come out publicly about the "power down" the weekend before or reports of hearing bombs in the building when they were inside?

SF: Many, many people have talked to me about the power down and one person was contacted by a journalist as a backup source for my information.

KT: Let's recap a little, you said you felt something wasn't right when the first crash happened and when the 2nd crash happened, you felt that this had something to do with the "power down" in the South Tower that you worked in. Did you immediately think it was an "inside job" at this point and did you think it just involved maybe the owners of the WTC, or did you also suspect that this may have also involved someone in the government?

SF: I didn't think that one group specifically were the cause, but I immediately was very suspicious about the power down. The timing was so coincidental.




KT: I guess at what point did you start to feel that the plane crashes were some sort of inside job? Did you think it was an inside job?

SF: Again that's putting it a little too specifically. I put together what I saw with my own eyes and the knowledge of the power down and came up with a great deal of suspicion on the "official" story. It just doesn't seem to be the total truth to me.

KT: When the towers came down, did that just create a ton of more suspicion for you?

SF: When the first tower collapsed, that's when my suspicion started.

KT: One aspect of 9/11 that probably has created the most suspicion the attacks for most people is the collapse of the 47-story WTC 7. Many people didn't even learn about this strange collapse until many months later when it first started appearing on conspiracy websites (that's how I learned about it!). Did you happen to witness the collapse of the WTC 7 from you apartment building and did you hear anything about it afterwards on your local NYC news?

SF: Yes, I was alerted by an item on TV (CNN I think) and when I looked out of the window I saw a new plume of smoke rising from the site. I did not see it actually collapse however.

KT: Did you see much news about this collapse immediately afterwards or ever see any video coverage of the WTC 7 collapsing on TV?

SF: I remember seeing coverage on CNN at the time and on other programmes and channels subsequently.

KT: Would you say there was a lot of follow-up news on the WTC 7 collapse in your area, or relatively few?

SF: Little -- it was considered only in context of the other tower collapses.

KT: When did you first start coming out in public talking about the "power down" in the South Tower and your general feelings of suspicion about the attacks?

SF: From day one, but more loudly about two months after when my company had rebuilt itself in a Disaster Recovery site in NJ.

KT: Who did you start talking to about it at first?

SF: My colleagues and friends.

KT: What was their reactions?

SF: Some were skeptical in the immediate aftermath in the midst of that very vengeful and angry reaction.

KT: Did any of them start to come around and take your story and thoughts seriously after everybody's initial anger and rage subsided a bit?

SF: Sure, some did and have, but many remain skeptical and frankly many do not want to revisit that time, as it was very painful.

KT: When did you go back to England?

SF: I came back to the UK in May 2003.

KT: When did you start trying to tell your story to government officials? Have you tried to contact the media also?

SF: I've sent emails and letters to the 9/11 commission and the Port Authority of NY/NJ, without response, and I've emailed, IM'd and spoken to several independent authors and broadcaster. No mainstream media outlets.

KT: So the 9/11 Commission and Port Authority never even contacted you back?

SF: No.

KT: Did that just make you feel that there might be a cover-up going on?

SF: Sure - that's natural isn't it - though it could just be inefficiency. All I am looking for is an acknowledgement that the power down did take place and that it has been investigated.

KT: So no "officials" have acknowledged the "power down" in the South Tower that you witnessed?

SF: Not that I know of.

KT: How many times have you tried to contact the 9/11 Commission or other officials?

SF: Three times in total.

KT: Has anybody else from your company or who witnessed the "power down" try to contact any officials?

SF: That I do not know.

KT: When did you try contacting alternative media outlets to try to tell your story?

SF: I entered a three or four line entry on a blog site in 2003. That was my first entry.

KT: Have any foreign news media or any of your local British media ever try to contact you about your story?

SF: Yes, recently I spoke face to face and on-camera with a Dutch Journalist, working on a documentary on 9/11 and I was interviewed by two English journalists also.

KT: Do you feel like the U.S. mainstream media has been less interested in your story than the foreign mainstream media?

SF: Yes, very much so.

KT: Any thoughts to as why?

SF: I feel that the US media and Americans in general have an over-sanitized and safe character. They are far less willing to be critical of their government and country than foreign media and individuals and this extends to the point of not questioning accepted half-truths. Also, 9/11 is now part of an American History that is cherished and almost Holy - to question it is to be traitorous.

KT: How interested has your alternative media and other foreign alternative media compared to the US alternative media about your story?

SF: I've spoken to English, Dutch and Australian journalists, as well as a number of American media-folk. I'm surprised that US media folk are not as aggressive - but then I am outside the US now.

KT: Do you feel more people in your country and the rest of Europe are more suspicious about 9/11 than most Americans?

SF: For sure! Let me put it this way, I am British working in US on 9/11. I was contacted by Police from London to interview me (debrief me), but none of my American colleagues were contacted by police or FBI or any agency. Kind of weird.

911 - A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence

A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence

NOTE: PLEASE DISSEMINATE THIS DEFINITIVE SUMMARY ON THE NUKING OF THE WTC AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!

by The Anonymous Physicist

In attempting to ascertain what caused the destruction of the WTC on 9/11/01, and the great heat and molten metal observed for up to six months afterward, one must account for ALL the phenomena involved in WTC destruction, and the aftermath-- and not just one or two factors. Only nuclear bombs and the resulting China Syndrome can account for ALL phenomena observed. The overview and numerous supporting articles on the nuclear destruction of the WTC are here: wtcdemolition.blogspot.com But, at the outset, we should realize that there is an abundance of evidence that the O.C.T. (Official Conspiracy Theory) is quite bogus. For example, sworn testimony from firemen/responders contains their witnessing of loud explosions from the onset of tower destruction. This alone destroys the OCT of gravity-driven, progressive collapse.

A brief summary of the nuclear aspects now follows.

1. First, low yield nukes (mini-nukes or micro-nukes) are a proven fact that the U.S Govt has admitted to since the 1950’s with their Davey Crocket rifle, and more recently with a physicist’s testimony to Congress. It is also documented fact that since the 1960’s, and Project Plowshare, low radiation nukes-- and later neutron bombs-- have been available, and were planned for excavation projects and such. My “many small nukes” WTC hypothesis indicates that numerous low yield nukes went off INSIDE (near the center of) the towers. They vaporized anything near them (via million degree temperatures and/or high neutron flux), but the yield of these micro-nukes was deliberately small enough not to vaporize the outer structure. This also ensured that any radiation was contained during detonation. And Plowshare, and neutron bombs, prove low radiation nukes have been available for decades.

2. MASSIVE EVIDENCE of ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSES (EMP) FROM NUKES. This includes the eyewitness, sworn testimony of EMT responder, Patricia Ondrovic (and others) SEE BELOW. She reported that as WTC1 was beginning to be destroyed, she saw flickering lights in WTC6 lobby where she tried to enter, but was stopped. And just outside at that time, cars caught fire without any visible reason, and one then had its car door explode off of it; and the door hit and injured her as she began to flee the area. Exactly how EMP from nukes did all this is explained here, along with other evidence of EMP during tower destruction from nuclear bombs.

3. DUST PARTICLE SIZE WAS LESS THAN 2.5 MICRONS-- & LIED ABOUT by the Gov’t’s main OCT (Official “Collapse” Theory) engineer/author. You can think of a mortar and pestle, and grinding something large into smaller and smaller pieces. It takes more and more energy input to yield smaller and smaller pieces. A nuclear bomb is known to yield particle sizes down to 10 nanometers. (1 nanometer is 1 billionth of a meter). And Govt scientists had equipment to analyze the WTC dust down to 10-nanometer size, if they wanted to, and should have. Unless they did, and have refused to release this. What they (the U.S. Geological Survey scientists) did was lump together all dust sizes less than 2.5 microns and released this data. (A micron is 1 millionth of a meter, and a thousand times larger than 1 nanometer). Nonetheless, the Govt’s main engineer/author, Z.P. Bazant, numerous times wrote papers that claimed that 10 microns was the smallest sized particles created during WTC destruction, and later collected by USGS scientists. For years he did not cite the work that showed, this. Last year he did cite a reference, and it led back to the 2.5 micron study, NOT to the 10 microns he claimed as the smallest dust particle size! So he flat out committed fraud here. He had to do this as his bogus papers claim that the gravitational potential energy (height times weight) of the towers accounted for the energy needed to create the smallest dust particle size. And there isn’t enough energy from his theory to account for 2.5 micron size dust, let alone the much smaller dust sizes that the USGS did not ascertain or release! The bogus physics and math from Bazant and others is here.

4. MELTED, HANGING SKIN WITHOUT FIRE was reported by at least 4 known WTC survivors. This includes WTC worker Felipe David, whose own words state this occurred without fire, but his story when told by another, has “fire” added. There are also two women who reported (on the “Larry King Show”) that a similar thing happened to them, and they don’t know why, because they too were not in any fire. And there is also a security guard with a similar report. The security guard and Felipe David had this happen to them in the lobby and the sub-basement area of WTC1 respectively. Outside the towers, firemen/responders also felt great heat on their skin without being near any fire DURING TOWER DESTRUCTION. Only the thermal rays of a nuclear bomb can account for this. They go out the farthest when a nuke goes off. And hanging skin was a common occurrence in Hiroshima survivors. Note that the outside firemen feeling heat on their skin (without fire near them) also disproves “DEW”, as they are NOT in the towers nor right under them either, and thus if “directed energy beams did it”, and these must be coherent, they would not diverge and cause heat far from their target! So no “DEW” was involved.

5. SUB-BASEMENT LEVEL, 50-TON STEEL PRESS & HEAVY DOOR VAPORIZED. At the same time as Felipe David’s nightmare was unfolding, and also in the sub-basement, WTC engineer Mike Pecoraro reports going up a level and seeing that a sub-basement level was in shambles and was “just gone.” Also he states a 50-ton press has also been apparently vaporized, and a 300 pound steel/concrete door has just been left shriveled up like foil. The only things that could do this are the multi-million degree temperatures, and neutron bombardment, from a nuclear bomb. Coupling this with the four survivors who had melted, hanging skin at this same time, we have evidence of blast, high temperatures, neutron bombardment and thermal rays-- all virtual proof of nuclear bomb use.

6. HEAT GENERATION AT THE WTC FOR UP TO 6 MONTHS AFTER 9/11- -THE CHINA SYNDROME AFTERMATH (CSA) (see http://wtc-chinasyndrome.blogspot.com) No heat “lingers” for weeks and months, not alleged jet fuel, not alleged thermite (which would have been used up either in minutes or hours--or during its use as an explosive). We have the documented, witnessed, and well photographed and videotaped great heat and molten metal for weeks, and indeed for up to six months underground at the WTC-- until all radioactive fission fragments were carted away. No heat lingers for that long; this could only have been heat GENERATION. The evidence of great heat throughout much of the rubble pile and even higher temperatures underneath the two towers and WTC7 is massive. It included melted firemen’s boots, even dogs had to wear special boots, a mass of congealed bullets in WTC6 going off weeks later from heat, and many photos of steam emanation from the continual water hosing of the “hotspots” all around the WTC. The China Syndrome HAD TO ARISE because each of the numerous small nukes used up only 1-6% of its fissile material-- which is standard for nukes. The remainder was then available as radioactive fragments, releasing great heat for a long time (until removed), as the half-life of Uranium 235 is 700 million years. And it is likely that there were numerous, redundant nukes employed, and the phenomena of "fratricided" and fizzled nukes may also have occurred as these are common with nuclear detonations. These effects likely further exacerbated the China Syndrome. The radioactive fragments were somewhat dispersed throughout the rubble pile, and in greatest concentration underneath the towers and WTC7-- where water and sand treatments could not readily be employed. Note that the alleged Tritium finding that the Govt released, may be a red herring to fool people to look for top-secret unknown types of nukes, which couldn’t have led to the CSA, which is what clearly occurred. The ludicrous lying (“there never was any heat during or after WTC destruction”) or the poor attempts to create new laws of chemistry and physics by alleged 9/11truthers (“super nanocomposite thermite burns forever”) only shows how desperate the Govt is to hide the China Syndrome Aftermath.

7. THE MISSING PEOPLE, FURNITURE, steel & other contents of the towers. Destruction of the towers vaporized many of the nearly 3,000 people who died, as well as much furniture, steel and other building contents. The medical examiner was unable to find or utilize any strands of DNA for over 1100 people. The rubble pile from the two towers was only a couple of stories high when it should have been several times higher from a “collapse,” or even a conventional demolition. There is much missing mass from the “extraordinarily high temperatures” as fire engineering Professor Barnett declared after examining vaporized steel, that occurred during tower/WTC7 destruction. Nukes vaporize matter near their hypocenter. Thermite, thermobarics, etc. DO NOT. Contrary to what some claim, neither thermite nor thermobarics could vaporize the missing people, furniture, steel and other contents, as detailed here.

8. CLASSICAL GOV’T DISINFO METHODS ENSUED whereby their agents put out supposedly “alternative theories” involving alleged “secret, new technologies” that are either evidence-free and/or impossible. Space Beams/DEW (Directed Energy Weapons), or ludicrous “super nanocomposite thermite burns forever” theories were created by the intel agencies to cover up the nuking of the WTC, and the China Syndrome Aftermath. (Thermite cools off in minutes or hours.) These “theories” desperately try to claim new phenomena or new laws of physics and chemistry--as does the 9/11 Commission’s ludicrous “findings.”

9. More now on the issue of Radiation: The #1 item above showed that the Govt has had mini-nukes, and micro-nukes for decades, and that low-radiation yielding nukes have also been around for decades as well. On the other hand, the great heat and molten metal at, and under, the WTC for up to six months after 9/11, indicates the existence of the China Syndrome Aftermath at the WTC; whereby many responders and Metro New York residents may have been exposed to some radiation from radioactive fission fragments that resulted from the use of the many micro-nukes. We have much indirect evidence of the effects of radiation poisoning among the 40,000 responders who were at “Ground Zero” in the weeks and months afterwards. There have been hundreds of reported cases of blood, lymph and thyroid cancers among responders. These types of cancers frequently arise from radiation exposure, and are much less likely (unlike lung diseases) to arise from inhalation of toxins. Also, the teeth and hair falling out reported by several responders are also standard illnesses from radiation poisoning. These responders’ doctors and lawyers are not telling these people that radiation may have caused their illnesses, because the China Syndrome Aftermath remains one of the Govt’s most closely guarded secrets. However, we can see that the Govt itself was well aware of what it had caused! Standard radiation-lowering methods were employed beginning the very next morning-- 9/12/01! These included water dilution/hosing down and sand/earth covering (and subsequent removal of this sand/earth) of the rubble pile. These procedures continued for weeks and months precisely because the rubble pile, and undergound areas, were replete with radioactive fission fragments.

There is some general information on radiation sources that needs elucidation. Due to absorption and other factors, radiation levels can go down quickly-- unless radioactive fragments (radionuclides) are released to the environment. Unless one is close (like Felipe David, who appears to have received thermal radiation, and not ionizing radiation)-- or the radiation is very intense-- enough distance/air or most materials, will stop most forms of radiation. This assumes one does not inhale or ingest radioactive particles or radionuclides. The underground WTC areas-- which likely had the highest radiation yields (and also heat)-- were off limits to all but a few responders. Also, as Hiroshima studies indicated, it took decades for many cancers and other illnesses to manifest. Note that a Gov’t agency, FEMA, was/is in charge of any radiation data for Ground Zero, and could easily have blocked release of any data that found radiation. The U.S. Gov’t has a long, sordid record of lying about radiation exposure to soldiers and citizens, as noted here when they nuked their own soldiers during “atomic tests”.

Honest people, not in DENIAL, must see the analogy to the Reichstag fire set by the German Nazis, in 1933, in Berlin. This was their seat of almost their entire federal gov’t. And this fire/destruction was used as an excuse to destroy their Constitution, and as an excuse for War on “terrorists,” and then all of Europe. There was one difference with the Nazis, however. They waited till the middle of the night, when there were no inhabitants in the Reichstag building! Of course, that German Gov’t did not admit they did it themselves, but that came out after they lost WWII. If U.S. Govt agencies have certain types of proof that they nuked the WTC, and thus its largest city; does any honest person think these Govt agencies would ever release this data--unless a new Gov’t came about? There is reason to believe that other crucial data such as WTC rubble pile temperature (AVIRIS, 2nd set), and WTC destruction seismic recordings were altered. This physicist hypothesizes that WTC responders AND nearby Metro New York residents and workers, that were exposed either the longest or to certain areas with the “hottest”spots face the risk of getting cancer and other immune disorders from radiation exposure in the years and decades to come. Sadly this will prove the China Syndrome Aftermath in the worst possible way. Private persons and institutions are urged to get and keep statistics on this, as the Gov’t will likely cover this up.
===========
 Patricia Ondrovic

February 10, 2006

http://killtown.blogspot.gr/2006/02/911-rescuer-saw-explosions-inside-wtc.html

9/11 Rescuer Saw Explosions Inside WTC 6 Lobby

In an exclusive Killtown interview, Ground Zero EMT Patricia Ondrovic talks about her harrowing day at the WTC on 9/11. Within minutes after the South Tower collapses, she witnessed the WTC 5 blowing up, cars exploding, and explosions inside the lobby of the WTC 6, all the while narrowly escaping with her own life.



Arriving at the Scene
Killtown: Were you one of the Ground Zero rescuers on 9/11?
Patricia Ondrovic: Yes.
KT: What was your position and who did you work for?
PO: I was an emergency medical technician [EMT] with the Fire Department of New York.
KT: How did your day start off on Sept. 11 and when did you get called to the scene at the WTC?
PO: It started off like any other. I had dropped a patient off at Bellevue and one of the Doc's asked if I was going to respond to the WTC. I told him it was out of my area. I asked "why, what's going on?" He told me they were getting reports that "a helicopter" had crashed into one of the towers. I responded after both planes had hit. I was on scene approx 45 min before the first tower fell.
[The 2nd crash happened at approx 9:03 a.m. and the South tower fell at approx 9:59 a.m.]
KT: Was the WTC area part of your regular route?
PO: No, I worked in the Times Square area. The WTC was far downtown from where I was.
KT: What did you immediately do once you arrived at the scene and do you remember where exactly you arrived at?
PO: I reported to a staging officer who told me to park the ambulance along Vesey Street. I ended up parking along the street in front of the 6 World Trade with several other ambulances. We were going to get any injured people who were brought out of the burning buildings to transport to the hospital. I don't remember where we entered from as I was not so familiar with the area

Another Airplane Warning
KT: Did you basically stay around that area before the South Tower collapsed at 9:59 am?
PO: Yes, we were staged waiting for the triage teams to bring us patients when an officer in a white shirt and blue pants (don't know from what agency) said that there was a radio transmission that stated, "Another plane was headed towards us!" We were told to get to our vehicles and get ready to move fast, but it wasn't fast enough. All of a sudden there was a lot of activity within the several agencies there and everyone started to scramble to ready their respective vehicles.
KT: When you were told another aircraft was approaching, was this right before the South Tower collapsed?
PO: Maybe 3 to 5 minutes prior. I don't know if that estimation is correct, but I remember we all had time to take a minute and look into the skies all around to see if we could see anything.
KT: Did you see any planes in the sky?
PO: No, there was nothing in the skies at that time.
KT: Did you happen to see any helicopters, military or non-military, flying around?
PO: I didn't see any helicopters at the time either.
KT: Where did they want you to move your vehicles to, any particular spot, or just "away" from the WTC?
PO: "Just get ready to move fast" is the phrase I remember.
KT: Did they want you to move away from the area right away, or just get ready to move if another plane was coming in?
PO: I don't know, they just told us to get our equipment, put it back in the vehicles and "get ready to move...fast". At that point, they seemed to realize it just wasn't a safe place to be.
KT: In retrospect, did it seem a little too coincidental that they told all of the rescuers to get ready to move out of the area minutes before the Tower collapsed?
PO: It was a bit eerie at the time as well. In that job, when someone tells you to "just move fast" there's nothing to question, you just move. We had been on scene for a while before just setting up and waiting for patients and all of a sudden there was so much activity. It did seem odd that after being there for some time all of a sudden everyone had to get ready to get out. I personally never expected the buildings to come down.
KT: Did you receive any direct warnings or hear any rumors that any of the towers might be coming down?
PO: We were not told the building was possibly going to collapse. I did not hear any rumors about a building collapse. I never heard anyone say anything to the effect that any of the buildings in the area were not stable at the time. We were simply told to get to our vehicles and get ready to move.
KT: Was Vesey Street blocked off between Church St and West St?
PO: Yes, I think all that were there were fire, police, EMS, and OEM [Office Emergency Management].
KT: Did you ever see any videos or cameras being confiscated from anyone that day?
PO: No.
KT: Did you see any newscasters or any other media people on or near Vesey taking any footage?
PO: No, none that I could see.

Cars Blowing Up
KT: What did you do when the South Tower started coming down?
PO: I didn't know what was happening, but there was a loud "roar" -- lots of crashing sounds. I was attempting to put my stretcher back into the vehicle. The ground was shaking and I saw a sea of people, mostly the various agencies on scene, Fire, Police, EMS, all running towards me. I had no idea what they were running from, but I decided I'd be ahead of them and just started running west towards the river. As I was running, parked cars were blowing up and some were on fire, the street was cracking a bit as well. Very shortly after I started running, everything became one big black cloud. I was near the West Side Highway and I couldn't see around me anymore.
KT: Before you heard the loud rumbling which was the South Tower coming down, do you remember hearing any strange noises like gunfire or crackling sounds?
PO: No.
KT: You talked about the cars blowing up in your WTC Task Force interview, correct?
PO: Yes.
KT: Can you estimate how many vehicles blew up around you?
PO: At least three and some were on fire as I was running by. I was still on the south side of Vesey running west. The burning cars were between my ambulance and about the middle of the 6 World Trade where the lobby doors were at.
KT: Where you running on the street, or up the sidewalk?
PO: Up the sidewalk.
KT: When these vehicles blew up, was it kind of like what you would see in the movies where the vehicle pops up in the air when it explodes with a fireball coming out?
PO: I remember parts flying off -- I think I got hit with a car door. I remember they were also on fire, but I don't specifically recall the movie type fireball, but there was a loud bang as the door flew off the one car I was running past.
KT: Do you have any idea what was causing these vehicles to catch on fire and/or explode? Was the air temperature really hot as you were running by these cars?
PO: I don't know what was causing them to blow up. I didn't know at the time that I was trying to outrun a skyscraper falling on me, but after I found out what I ran from. I figured it was the impact of the building falling and residual effect. I am not an engineer, so I can only guess at a probable cause. I don't remember feeling any extreme heat.
KT: Could you tell if the vehicles blowing up on the street were only parked next to the WTC 6?
PO: I was only paying attention to my immediate surroundings, if there were any vehicles not near me blowing up, I wasn't aware of them, just the ones closest to me.
KT: What type of vehicles were they (cars, SUVs, trucks -- civilian, non-civilian) that were on fire or had blown up?
PO: They were unmarked cars, most likely privately owned. I didn't see any SUVs, trucks or any "official" vehicles on fire.
KT: Were these cars all parked next to each other?
PO: They were parallel parked. There was no discernable order to what was on fire. It was all very chaotic.

Explosions Inside WTC 6 Lobby
KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?
PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.
KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?
PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.
KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?
PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.
KT: Could you still hear any of these explosions when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?
PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.
KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be explosions?
PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.
KT: Were the explosions going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?
PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.
KT: Where the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?
PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.
KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?
PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small explosions were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.
KT: Did you know which government agencies were in the WTC?
PO: I knew there were a lot of federal agencies in the WTC complex, but I don't know which ones specifically.
KT: Did these policemen run out of the WTC 6 lobby after these explosions occurred, or could you tell?
PO: It didn't look like they did. It looked like they were there making sure no one ran in like I tried to do. I remember seeing them in the doorway, but don't know what happened to them after that.
KT: Did you happen to notice if they were wearing any earplugs or any other uncommon protective gear?
PO: There was nothing that I could see. They appeared to be dressed to simply do lobby detail. No flack wear, no overcoats, no helmets. To this day, I still wonder if they got out.
KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?
PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.
KT: Have you ever seen a building being demolished with explosives on TV and was the flashes and pops similar to that?
PO: It did remind me of just that. I had seen something on a Las Vegas casino being demolished and that's what it reminded me of

KT: Can you try to describe what these "pops" you heard sounded like?
PO: They sounded like light bulbs popping, but there were no light fixtures where the explosions were coming from. The sound was not all that loud.
KT: Do you think these explosions you witnessed were loud enough to be heard on the street?
PO: Because of everything going on, I don't think these "pops" could have been heard from the street. It was definitely louder outside as a whole.
KT: At the time, who did you think planted these explosives in there?
PO: I didn't have any notions of where to put blame per se, but I remember thinking that it was possibly the same organization who tried to blow up the building back in 1993. I figured they came back to finish the job. At the time I was running, I remember thinking that "they" wired the whole area. At the time I wasn't aware that what made the towers catch fire were passenger jets crashing. I thought the buildings had bombs planted to go off that day. The idea of not only one passenger jet, but two took me a while to comprehend -- not to mention the pentagon as well.

KT: Can you estimate how long after you heard the loud rumbling, which was the South Tower coming down, to when you witnessed these explosives going off in the WTC 6?
PO: Well, remember this was all on the same street I was parked. It is very difficult for me to estimate time with so much happening at once, but I want to say maybe 2 to 3 minutes from the rumbling and the ground, and the cars, and the fires, that I tried to run into 6 WTC for cover, which is when I saw those explosions.
KT: Did anybody else besides you and the police witness these explosions in the WTC 6 lobby?
PO: I imagine there must have been others to see, I wasn't the only one running up the street. I can't imagine being the only person to try to run for cover. I didn't see any "civilians" in the lobby of the 6, just the brown uniformed officers.

Motorola Radio Troubles
KT: After you witnessed the explosions in the lobby of the WTC 6, you started running in which direction and then what happened?
PO: I kept running west on Vesey. I got hit with the cloud shortly after being turned away from 6 WTC. I was probably at the corner of Vesey/West Street at that point running. I ran towards the West Side Highway -- there is a park area there. I remember running across grass and there was now lots of grey and black smoke. I was just trying to get to the water because nothing was exploding, or on fire from what I could see. There were lots and lots of people also running that way at this point.
KT: When were you able to escape the dust cloud and what happened after that?
PO: I was now at the water's edge. There were no boats I could see, so I started to run north along the side of the West Side Highway. I was about 9 or 10 blocks north of Vesey on the West Side Highway. I found the first FDNY EMS vehicle and knew the crew as they were also from my station. I remember not being able to breathe so well -- felt like someone was standing on my chest. When I looked back, I could see people coming out of the black cloud and continuing to run and walk north on the West Side Highway as well.
KT: Did you notice any firefighters or other rescuers having technical problems with their Motorola radios or any other equipment?
PO: Oh yeah, at one point there was a loud "buzzing" sound and none of the EMS radios worked for maybe 30 seconds? We all used Motorola radios and I believe our repeaters were on top of the towers, so when the tower came down our radios failed. I tried to use my cellphone, but that too did not work.
KT: Do you know if anybody's cellphone worked and were able to get through to anybody?
PO: A few of my co workers had Nextel phones. Theirs worked, but they couldn't talk to anyone who didn't have a Nextel because all the other services were out at the time.
KT: When did you get to leave the area to go home?
PO: I left by ambulance. A FDNY EMS supervisor came up to myself and my colleagues and told us to "go back in." I still wasn't aware of what I had come out of and I told him anyone who didn't get out isn't getting out and it's not safe to go back in. He yelled at me, demanding all 3 of us "go back in." I told him I was having chest pain and trouble breathing and my colleagues took me to St. Vincent's Hospital. I was on the stretcher with an oxygen mask on looking out the back windows as we were driving off and saw the other tower collapse. It didn't occur to me at the time that the other one was already gone and that's what I came out of. I don't remember when I got home. I had to walk over the Queensboro Bridge and it was dark out. I walked home from my station at Bellevue. I lived in Astoria, Queens at the time. All I wanted to do was get home and see my cats.

Bag & Tag at Ground Zero
KT: In the days after, did you have to go back at Ground Zero?
PO: Yes, I think my first day back was maybe 3 days later.
KT: What were your duties when you had to go back?
PO: We all took turns doing morgue detail, standby for anyone who got hurt going through the rubble. I did morgue detail a few times.
KT: Is this what is referred to as "bag & tag"?
PO: Yes, when you have to log any body parts, or personal effects in morgue work. It was important to try to document any remains we found.
KT: Now despite this being probably the most chaotic incident you had to work at, did you find any strange things when you're recovering evidence there?
PO: Well, I remember cataloging findings in the morgue log -- a tooth, an arm and such. Never catalogued watches, wallets or jewelry.
KT: You never found any jewelry on any of the victim's parts?
PO: I didn't, no. But I do recall at some point either in Brooklyn or Staten Island they had a facility where debris was trucked to and the contents sifted by hand for any evidence. That was some time after 9/11, maybe a few weeks after they started that.
KT: Did you find any personal belongings on the ground or buried under any debris?
PO: I didn't.
KT: What about things like office furniture, computers, and pictures -- things that would be in a normal office building?
PO: Everything was this sort of grey/black debris. I personally never saw anything definable like a chair, desk, or phone, but I never went into what was the base of the building itself, there could have been there. I remember everything being layered in grey soot and ashes everywhere and just debris. One thing I remember distinctly was on a corner adjacent to the towers a bike messenger's bicycle still chained to the lamppost covered in soot.
KT: Have you ever worked a recover detail where you didn't find any recognizable personal belongings or objects like interior furniture, say from the aftermath of a fire?
PO: I never worked a recovery detail before that. It wasn't customary for EMS to work recovery. From time to time we would have to transport a body to the morgue after an investigation was completed if the deceased was in public view. I worked in midtown. In the 12 years I was with EMS, I never responded to anything like that.
KT: A year after the attacks, a victim's family received an ATM card that belonged to their son who was supposedly on Flight 11 that crashed into the North Tower and was supposedly found in relative pristine condition by rescue crews at Ground Zero. Did you ever come across anything even remotely close to someone's personal item like this in any condition?
PO: I never came across any personal effects. The things I did find were charred, burnt, rubble covered in soot. I guess that's the needle in the haystack [the ATM card].
KT: So is it fair to say that you think something like this plastic ATM could not only not survive at Ground Zero, but not survive so well intact?
PO: I'd say it was a miracle.

Aircraft Wreckage
KT: Did you ever see any aircraft wreckage lying around on or after 9/11 at Ground Zero.
PO: Not on 9/11, but a bit after one day I was doing standby and there was a long flatbed truck bringing out a long piece of silver and charred metal, probably the length of 2 passenger cars, that one of the police officers doing standby detail with us brought to my attention and he said it was a piece of the plane.
KT: Could you at all tell what part of the plane this piece of debris you saw on this truck came from and could you see any windows or other discernable markings?
PO: No, it had to be brought to my attention what it was. In fact, I forgot I saw that until you asked the question. It would have stuck in my memory if it was a wing, or seats or anything like that. It was a somewhat long and curved at the edges piece of what looked like fuselage. I didn't see any company markings on it either.
KT: You mentioned this piece was silver in color. Did any part of that piece of silver debris you saw have any of the "shiny silver" you would see on your average American Airlines plane?
PO: Not when I saw it. The entire piece was dull and charred silver, but it definitely looked like part of a plane.
KT: Did anybody you know of who was at the WTC on 9/11 or at Ground Zero afterwards see or find any airplane debris?
PO: Not that I'm aware of. No one mentioned anything like that to me.

WTC Task Force Interview
KT: You were interviewed by the WTC task force afterwards. Did anybody else interview you about your experience at ground zero?
PO: The WTC Task Force was the only group that ever interviewed or debriefed me. They asked me to detail the events that day as well as mark on a map where I was parked and which way I ran.
KT: Who were the people at the WTC Task Force that interviewed you?
PO: I was told one was from the F.B.I., one was from D.O.I. [Dept. of Investigations], one was P.D. I recall there were 4 to 5 people involved. They were writing as well as voice recording.
KT: Do you know why some of the lines on pages 9, 12, 13 of your Task Force interview were blacked out?
PO: No, I never received a copy of my interview and I never read it. All I did was the one interview with them.
KT: When these officials were debriefing you, was this a normal routine after an incident?
PO: I had been on other calls that I was debriefed after (not many) and usually it was an EMS supervisor with P.D. if it was a crime scene, or if I had witnessed a crime, or incident in progress.
KT: Was your interview with the WTC Task Force more of a normal debriefing, or did you feel like you were being interrogated?
PO: I felt as if they were trying to pick apart every minute detail from every possible angle.
KT: Did you find that odd, especially having to trace your movements on a map?
PO: It was a crime scene, so much was lost. I figured they still had to recover equipment and needed to document. I think I was still a bit shell shocked to really consider it. There were so many things that were odd then, nothing was normal.
KT: Did you mention the flashes and explosions going off in the lobby of the WTC 6 to them?
PO: Yes, I did. I remember describing what looked like depth charges going off in the building I tried to run into, but I don't see it in the transcript of my interview.
KT: Did they ask you any follow-up questions about these explosions?
PO: No, they asked me to describe the events as I have described them to you here. I don't recall them asking any follow up questions. They simply took notes all the way through. The only specific questions I remember being asked was in regards to mapping out where my vehicle was and which way I ran.

WTC 5 Blowing Up
KT: On the Task Force interview, you said "I was still on Vesey, cause the building that blew up on me was on Vesey." Which building were you refereeing to?
PO: I don't know, but that is all WTC property. I'm not sure if that was 6 or just a part of the WTC complex.
KT: When you said the building "blew up" on you, are you talking about the explosions you saw in the WTC 6 lobby?
PO: No, this was directly behind my vehicle as I was trying to put the stretcher back in. I don't know if that was part of 6 though. I ran from what was blowing up and that's when I tried to run into the lobby of 6. The vehicles were parked backed up to the curb, not parallel parked, so the back doors of the ambulance were facing the building [WTC 6] on the south side of Vesey.
KT: Do you feel that it was either the WTC 5 or 6 that was blowing up?
PO: Yes.
KT: Was this before the cars started catching on fire and blowing up, or about at the same time?
PO: All at the same time. Everything happened very quickly. I couldn't say which came first.
KT: You mentioned in that interview that you thought one of the lobbies of the building behind you is what blew out. Was this the lobby of WTC 5 or 6?
PO: I'm not sure, but it was probably 5 because 6 was west of me and that's the lobby I tried to run into.
KT: Can you describe more about how the building blew up on you? Did you feel the shock wave from the explosion and/or debris falling down near you?
PO: Well, one second I was trying to put my stretcher into the ambulance, the next thing I know I am thrown to the ground as the ground was shaking. Debris was flying at me from where the building I was parked in front of. There was a continual loud rumbling, there was just debris flying from every direction and then everything being covered in the black and gray smoke.
KT: Let's recap real quickly; your ambulance was parked backed up against the WTC 6, near the 6's corner by the alleyway between the WTC 5 and 6. When you were trying to put your stretcher back in, you were knocked down to the ground by an explosion that you thought came from the lobby of WTC 5. When you got back up, you started running west up the sidewalk on Vesey St towards West Side Hwy and then these cars parked along the street started blowing up as you ran by and that's when you tried to duck into the WTC 6 lobby for cover, but these policemen inside where preventing you from coming in and that's when you saw the explosions inside the lobby of WTC 6?
PO: Yes.
KT: Did anybody else you know concur with you that either the WTC 5 or 6 was blowing up at the same time you heard the rumbling of the South Tower collapsing?
PO: No, it never came up in discussion.
KT: After the attacks when things were starting to settle down for you and after the government and media was telling us what had all happened, did you ever look back and think what were all those explosions from the WTC 5 and 6 you witnessed were all about and why there was never any official mention of them?
PO: No, I didn't watch the news. I was a bit shell shocked to say the least. In fact the very first time I have revisited that day was when I found your site.

WTC 7
KT: You mentioned you left the WTC area before the North Tower collapsed. When did you hear about the WTC 7 collapsing, in which you were parked across the street from on 9/11?
PO: When I stumbled onto your site 3 weeks ago.
KT: Did that surprise you that you never heard about the WTC 7 collapsing afterwards?
PO: Actually, it did. It confused me somewhat because I don't remember seeing anything on the news about it, or even knowing it was in any type of unstable condition.
KT: So you weren't aware that another building had collapse (which was WTC 7) when you returned to Ground Zero for morgue detail?
PO: No I wasn't. There was so much debris and wreckage I couldn't tell what was what anymore.
KT: When you were on the scene on Vesey St that whole time, did you happen to notice any commotion, or anything strange going on near the WTC 7?
PO: No.

Colleagues Lost
KT: Were you ever invited to the 9/11 Commission hearings?
PO: No.
KT: Were you ever gagged by anybody from talking about anything related to 9/11?
PO: No, I wasn't.
KT: Are you concerned that you might loose your job by speaking out on these issues?
PO: No, not at this time.
KT: Have you suffered any health effects from working down at Ground Zero?
PO: I broke a couple of ribs, but didn't realize it till 3 days later. I had, like most of my colleagues, the "WTC cough" for several months. It was an extremely annoying dry hack that didn't produce anything, but acted more like "spasms" rather than a cough. You'd get woken up in the middle of the night with this cough that sometimes would have you near passing out and unable to catch your breath. Over time it has dissipated, thanks gods.
KT: Did you lose any colleagues at Ground Zero?
PO: I stopped counting at 60.
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