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Thursday, July 5, 2018

Ron Unz: the JFK Assassination, Comments 2





Ron Unz: the JFK Assassination, Comments 2

COMMENTS
===============

www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/#comment-2379170

-------------------------
Mulga Mumblebrain says:
June 19, 2018 at 11:43 am GMT

Bertrand Russell, among others, at the age of 91, saw through the cover-up immediately. His ’16 Questions on the Assassination’ published in September, 1964, are very interesting.

------------------------
“The Single-Bullet Theory”

D. K. says:
June 19, 2018 at 5:30 pm GMT • 500 Words

The linchpin of the Warren Commission’s much-maligned “Lone-Nut Theory”– the conclusion that Lee Oswald, acting wholly on his own, had conceived and planned the assassination of President John Kennedy, and then had successfully carried out that plan, during the former’s lunch hour at the Texas School Book Depository– is Arlen Specter’s notorious brainstorm: “The Single-Bullet Theory.” The Commission had decided that only three shots had been fired, during the assassination, because three spent bullet casings had been found in the so-called “sniper’s nest,” inside of a corner window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. The third shot was the fatal head shot, as captured on Mr. Zapruder’s famous “home movie.” Another, probably the first, was the missed shot that indirectly wounded onlooker James Tague, standing well down the street, when it hit the curb, causing his cheek to be bloodied by a small piece of flying concrete. The other, probably the second, therefore had to be responsible for both the original wounding of the president and all of the wounds of Governor John Connally. Thus, Arlen Specter’s notorious solution: “The Single-Bullet Theory.”

According to the Warren Commission, courtesy of the future long-time United States Senator for Pennsylvania, a single bullet, later found at Parkland Hospital by an attendant, who turned it over to the authorities, had entered at the base of the rear of the president’s neck, exited through his throat, wounded the governor in several parts of his body, and finally lodged in his leg. The bullet then was presumably dislodged during the governor’s treatment in the ER, remaining on his stretcher. While that stretcher was resting against the wall, in the hallway outside of the governor’s ER treatment room, the aforementioned attendant pushed another stretcher against the wall, which inadvertently jarred the governor’s stretcher, knocking the previously dislodged bullet off of that stretcher and onto the floor, which the attendant had noticed, causing him to pick it up, and then to turn it over to the authorities as possible evidence.

A fatal flaw in “The Single-Bullet Theory” is that the president had not been shot at the base of the rear of his neck. He had been shot, instead, about five and a half inches down his back, a couple of inches to the right of its midline. That bullet wound was probed by both Dr. Humes and another doctor, during the autopsy, using both their fingers and a metal probe. It went to a depth of only about two inches, and the bullet was no longer in the president’s body. Applying Occam’s Razor, the nearly pristine bullet that was found at Parkland Hospital, as recounted above, was not somehow dislodged from the governor’s leg wound, during his ER treatment; instead, it was dislodged from the president’s back wound, during resuscitation efforts in the ER. At any rate, none of the governor’s multiple wounds were caused by the same shot as the president’s back wound, and “The Single-Bullet Theory” is disproved, along with the theory of Lee Oswald’s having carried out the entire attack with just three shots from his badly aligned surplus rifle.
------------------------

Hu Mi Yu says:
June 19, 2018 at 6:10 pm GMT • 300 Words
@Anon

    -The Zapruder film shows JFK being violently thrown to his left and rear by the fatal head shot. Incredibly, this film was kept under wraps for 12 YEARS. IMO the WCR would have been a joke if the film had been available to the public when it was released.

It was shown twice on Los Angeles TV station KCOP before being sent in for evidence. The Hollywood people who developed it were so shocked they wanted the public to view it before the government could edit it. Which they did.

What I saw in the original implicated the secret service and the President’s wife. They came to a pre-apointed spot and jammed on the brakes so hard the you could see under-sprung Lincoln rocking back and forth. The drivers stared straight ahead while at least three shots are fired. The only person who turned around was Governor Connally. He was immediately shot and ducked under the seat. The passengers were under instructions not to turn around and look.

The first shot struck the President in the throat from the rear. He tried to duck, but his wife Jackie held him up poised like a statue for the fatal shot from the front.
 

To understand how they turned Jackie you need to check out old newspapers from 1963. The President’s affair with Marilyn Monroe was front page news. A Catholic divorce was impossible; marriage was “until death do us part.” According to one of the conspirators all Jackie wanted was another husband even richer than JFK.
-------------------------------

James N. Kennett says:
June 19, 2018 at 6:15 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Bombercommand

    Therefore the rifle could only be in front, and above the target. There is only one place the rifle shootist could have made that shot from: on top of The Triple Underpass.

As you say, Kennedy was looking down after the throat shot. If the head shot came from the front, it didn’t necessarily come from above.

There were spectators on the Triple Underpass who would have seen and heard a shooter there:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/explorer/galleries/explorer-jfk-the-lost-bullet-pictures/at/triple-underpass-39917/

-------------------------------------

Sam J. says:
June 19, 2018 at 6:47 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Dillon Sweeny

“…Which of the 400 comments presented verifiable evidence of another weapon? Did all the bullets that tattered Kennedy’s corpse — you know … the Mafia .45s, the Israeli Uzis, the Cuban surplus FALNs — did all those bullets just evaporate?…”

This is just a smoke screen as the body was under control of people who could have removed whatever bullets were there and replaced them with whatever they wanted. The real “Evidence” is that audio recording recorded shots from more than one position. What kind of bullets is irrelevant.

I can’t remember where I read it but I read that this was the gun that killed Kennedy from the grassy knoll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_XP-100

Easy to hide. Very high velocity and a super accurate shooter.

---------------------------------------
renfro says:
June 19, 2018 at 8:17 pm GMT • 1,300 Words
@Wizard of Oz

    You used a quote from the Jerusalem Post as if to add weight and authority to your case but you left out part of it, notably the 1967 date which was essential for understanding precisely and making sense of what the JP article was saying. I won’t repeat what I have already demonstrated about that but if you offer any more obfuscatory smoke I hope readers will refer back.

First…. I didnt quote the JP piece utu did.

Second…..lets look at article shall we? It is the typical Israeli chest beating puff piece pretending they are big and bad and can stare down US Presidents.

The article itself confirms utu’s point that Kennedy was a threat to Israel’s survival and nuclear capabilities ….as in this paragraph from the article:

But history shows that some issues are so critical that even the president of the United States cannot force Israel’s hand. Important examples include Menachem Begin’s rejection of Jimmy Carter’s demand for an indefinite settlement freeze in the 1978 Camp David summit, and Ariel Sharon’s refusal to accept George W. Bush’s demand to end anti-terror operations in March 2002, following the Passover attacks, including the Park Hotel. The sharpest example took place almost 50 years ago, when John F. Kennedy demanded that David Ben-Gurion end Israel’s nuclear deterrent program, deemed necessary to ensure Jewish survival in a very hostile world.

Also confirming utu’s point in the article:

”’When president Kennedy took office in 1961, the disagreement became a full-blown crisis.

And this:

”Finally, Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated.

You said:
but you left out part of it, notably the 1967 date which was essential for understanding precisely and making sense of what the JP article was saying

All the article said re 1967 was:

”Before 1967, the IDF was not seen as a formidable power, and the economy depended on massive aid from Diaspora Jewry. If the US government were to impose tax restrictions, the costs would have been very high. Ben-Gurion avoided saying no by dancing around them for two years.”

Which had once again nothing to do with Kennedy’s actions re Israel and only points up that only after Kennedy was murdered and Johnson took over did the heat on Israel go down.

You Jews for Israel really are morons….we get that you are here to just toss hasbara crap, similar to little boys pulling a girls pigtails in grade school,…..but you don’t realize that that just gives us the opportunity to put out more actual information on Israel.

Enjoy…lol

When Ben-Gurion said no to JFK
The “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise served both Israel and the US well.
By Gerald Steinberg
March 28, 2010 23:23
------------------------------

Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
June 19, 2018 at 8:58 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Hu Mi Yu

Really!!! And here I thought the second husband Onassis acted alone without Jackie’s knowledge. Now we know why she consented to go to Texas with him.

The drs at the Dallas hospital had to unwrap a complicated hip and back brace. Some say it was the back brace that held him up. You say Jackie held him up. Very interesting

Some say she and Onassis got engaged September 1963 2 months before Kennedy died. Onassis was a guest in the White House during the body viewing funeral and until she moved out.

5 pregnancies, 2 miscarriages and 1 premature baby who died a few days after birth; all due to JFK’s incurable chronic chalymadia and other chronic STDs that he passed on to his wife.

Have you heard about the retired Australian cop who claims the secret service driver of the car turned around and fired the head shot ?

If the driver stopped the car that would disprove the endless theories that Oswald couldn’t shoot a moving target.

If Oswald couldn’t shoot the moving target, how could the grassy knoll overpass and numerous other shooters hit the moving target?
-----------------------------

Iris says:
June 19, 2018 at 9:44 pm GMT

Jack Ruby told an FBI informant to “watch the fireworks” a few hours before President John F Kennedy was assassinated, the latest release of JFK files reveals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jfk-files-release-john-f-kennedy-jack-ruby-fbi-watch-for-fireworks-lee-harvey-oswald-assassination-a8063826.html

---------------------------

MacNucc11 says:
June 19, 2018 at 10:03 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Dillon Sweeny

So you would expect to find every bullet fired? He ran but only after the police immediately targeted him as planned. He was sitting in the lunchroom. But why would he run? Was his plan to run to Mexico? He was hung out to dry. Why would a policeman question him? It is all suspicious. Most likely I think the policeman was to gun him down, case closed and a lot neater than what we ended up with don’t you think? Jack Ruby was damage control when Oswald got the policeman. Think about it. If Oswald is gunned down by the policeman on the streets then we have way less reason to believe in conspiracies. If this happened today we would just never hear from Oswald, like we will never here the explanation of Tsarnaev.
----------------------------

MacNucc11 says:
June 19, 2018 at 10:15 pm GMT
@Anon

“If Oswald couldn’t shoot the moving target, how could the grassy knoll overpass and numerous other shooters hit the moving target?”

Because a moving target that is moving toward you is more or less the same as a stationary target.
--------------------------

Iris says:
June 19, 2018 at 10:53 pm GMT • 200 Words

Did Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald know each other?
That would constitute a very improbable “coincidence”, and would in turn make the “conspiracy” very probable.

1- Comedian and MC Bill DeMar, who worked at Ruby’s nightclub “The Carousel”, saw Oswald there a week before the assassination.


2- Another MC, Wally Weston, who worked at the nightclub before DeMar, remembered Oswald coming at the Carousel on at least two occasions, with Ruby saying: “I told you never to come in here”. Wally Weston later testified at the HSCA.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/N%20Disk/New%20York%20Daily%20News%206-76/Item%2001.pdf

3- (I love this one ) During the press conference where Chief Henry Wade announces Oswald has been arrested for killing the President, and is part of a pro-Cuban communist organisation, Jack Ruby corrects him (!!!!) and gives the correct name (Fair play for Cuba). At 11:20.

-------------------------------

Yneews Nollid says:
June 19, 2018 at 11:17 pm GMT • 100 Words

Dillon Sweeny is adopting CIA last-ditch rearguard line of defense No. 1493(b), which is try to keep everyone arguing about the minutiae of one single aspect of the evidence (ballistics, for this crime) to distract people from the overwhelming probative evidence of CIA coup d’état based on documented government statements and actions as shown repeatedly inter alia in Douglass.

https://off-guardian.org/2017/11/19/book-review-jfk-and-the-unspeakable-how-he-died-and-why-it-matters/

CIA killed Jack Kennedy and everybody knows it. Nobody does anything about it because CIA will kill you too if you move to make them pay. They set themselves up with impunity from inception. CIA is your regime. They control the executive with moles. When Congress or the courts step out of line CIA removes them, terrorizes them into compliance (Daschle, Leahy) or kills them (Robert Vance, Paul Wellstone.)

CIA is your totalitarian state. What are you gonna do about it?
--------------------------------------

renfro says:
June 19, 2018 at 11:33 pm GMT • 200 Words

This call to a reporter 25 minutes before Kennedy assassination telling him to contact the US Embassy for big news .

From the CIA files . You can view the CIA memo at the link.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389606.pdf

It says a reporter on the UK’s Cambridge Evening News received an anonymous call telling him to ring the US embassy for some big news, 25 minutes before the assassination of JFK, according to a memo from a deputy director of the CIA to the director of the FBI.
The caller said only that the Cambridge News reporter should call the American embassy in London for some big news and then hung up. After the word of the president’s death was received the reporter informed the Cambridge police of the anonymous call and the police informed MI5.

Reminds me of this,…..

‘Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of Attack
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

https://www.haaretz.com/1.541023

Could two pranksters have been so coincidencely lucky about two monumental events? I doubt it.
But if the people who did it were ever traced the results have not been reveled to the public.

-------------------------------

republic says:
June 20, 2018 at 12:06 am GMT • 200 Words
@Skeptikal

no it was in NY state.

Last September I posted a reply here on Unz that I had discovered for the first time the very interesting detail regarding the presence abroad that AA flight 11 of an ex Israeli commando named Daniel Lewin. This man was a super zionist, he seemed to be going on a mission which he did not expect to return alive, as he got all his affairs in order and had just received a visit from his long estranged father who hated America but had made his first trip there to see Daniel Lewin just before 9/11.

Roth states in that video interview that based on her many years as a flight attendant that the phasing of the long 20 minute or so telephone conversations to the ground made by two different flight attendants were very oddly phrased and appear to her to have been dictated by someone else. Oddly very unemotional and very quiet in the background.
these conversation were crucial in make the narrative that arabs were involved.

Roth also states that some odd wording indicates that those calls were made on a the ground and not in the air.
So based on Roth’s interview and her book it seems that Lewin was on that flight not by accident as his standard wiki entry indicates but on purpose as he directed that complex ground operation at Steward airport.
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 American Friends Service Committee

Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
June 20, 2018 at 2:54 am GMT • 700 Words
@Skeptikal

I developed my opinion of the American Friends Service Committee about 30 years before I learned Ruth Paine was a Quaker.

I was in college when Kennedy was killed and the leftist profs claimed that although Oswald was a pro Castro self proclaimed communist that wasn’t why he killed Kennedy.

The left claimed that Oswald killed Kennedy because the “ atmosphere of right wing hate” somehow got into Oswald’s brain and cause him to kill Kennedy.

I worked for a city&county of San Francisco agency that was under siege by every radical revolutionary group from Charles Garry Faye Stender prison law project to black panthers weather underground who bombed Park Pokice station killing one officer and invaded Ingleside police station killing a secretary.

I saw a convicted murderer made under sheriff.

I knew Bernadette Dorhn under a false name when she bombed Park police station. She, weather underground founder, was on the run from bombings and murders on the east coast.

She came to San Francisco and worked for one of those do gooder federally funded agencies under a false name.

Her agency was an off shoot of the prison law project. Prison law project was White liberals trying to foment a revolution by black criminals.

The Black Muslim zebra killers, the black guerilla revolutionary movement, prison law project; the American Friends Service Committee worked hand in glove with all those deeply revolutionary movements including the police station bombers.

If you don’t know who they are, google Jim Jones People’s Temple Johnstown massacre.

Did you know that many of the White people involved in that atrocity were Quakers of the American Friends Service Committee? I know because I was there in San Francisco.

Some of those Peoples Temple Quakers were working with Charles Garry in the early 1960s when he started the People’s Law Project which spent a great deal of time at nearby San Quentin prison recruiting for the violent revolution the liberals wanted.

Last horrible thing the American Friends Service Committee did was when the city wanted to close down the gay bathhouses at the start of the AIDS epidemic. By wallowing around in each other’s germs the gays created AIDS and other nasty STDs such as both venereal warts and veneral mushrooms

The gays massively protested against closing the bathhouses and American Friends Service Committee was right there with them.

I don’t know about the Vatican Masonic Illuminati conspiracy.

But I do know that San Francisco was the heart of the revolutionary movement from 1960 on. And I know that east coast Jews and American Friends Quakeres were the Whites leading it.

I didn’t learn that Marina’s friend and caretaker Ruth Paine was a Quaker till about 1999 or 2000 when someone gave me several cartons of books. About 30 of those books were Kennedy assassination books. I started reading them and learned Ruth Paine was a Quaker who studied Russian.

But by 1970 I had formed my opinion of American Friends by observing their support of violent revolutionaries like the black panthers black guerilla family prison law project and the weather underground.

They were involved with Jim Jones and People’s Temple for God’s sake.

And you can’t deny that black revolutionary CPUSA heroine Angela Davis, purchaser of the guns used in the Marin county shoot out that killed 11 people was sponsored by, and lived with Quakers from age 14 to 22.

There’s a lot you don’t know about your religion.

Ruth Paine married a man whose father was head of the Trotskyite faction. She sought out Marina from the first few months in the US. She moved the Oswalds from New Orleans to Dallas. Marina lived with her apart from Lee
She found Lee the job right on the motorcade route.

I believe the job really was a coincidence.

But I saw the American Friends inserting themselves deep into violent revolutionary movements in San Francisco for 20 years. So I don’t believe American Friends are a benign do gooder organization any more than I believe SPLC or BLM are benign do Gooder organizations.

I saw what American Friends Service Committee did in San Francisco for 20 years. You didn’t.
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peterAUS says:
June 20, 2018 at 6:10 am GMT • 400 Words
@Wizard of Oz

    …he key factor was comfortable balance so there was nothing to do but operate one’s [right] arm and hand smoothly. Does that figure?

It does, for that particular rifle (the fastest bolt action design, rear locking), that type of target (stationary, same level) and that position.
That’s the very basics of the marksmanship with full bore rifle.

It would be good to say what was your group on the target too…..

I really didn’t want to get involved in this discussion here, for several reasons.

The element which puzzles me, and apparently nobody here can answer that, is that timeframe.
It’s very simple: Oswald could not have done those 3 shots in 7 seconds. Very hard in 8. Getting easier with 9. Etc.
I was hoping that somebody would clear that for me.

There are a couple of, say, “rules” in cases like this.
First one is of type we can’t really discuss in public. Bottom line, a proper conspirator would have practiced on exactly that target. Exactly….that…..target.
I simply can’t emphasize that enough. It’s simply how it is done.
Oswald apparently didn’t. That tells me a couple of things.

Then, any normal investigation would have involved recreating the event.
My point is that nobody, so far, has been able to pull that, exactly that, within 7 seconds.
That tells me also a couple of things.

All this is irrelevant.

My understanding is that there is something in American psyche which is drawn to this event.
Watching discussions isn’t about the event; it’s about people discussing.

My take is simple:
If we clear the number of shooters (and for me the timeframe is crucial) then two options:
More than one shooter: obviously conspiracy.
One shooter, Oswald, a couple of (sub)options:
- Not a conspiracy, just a peculiar combination of events.
- Hare-brained, amateurish conspiracy.

Now, having said that, I am positive there was a conspiracy, by a couple of interested parties, after the event, to exploit it, including messing up the investigation.
More of a power play and “cover my/our arse” type than anything else.

Still…..it all hinges, as I said in my first post here, the timeframe of those 3 shots.
Bang/start the stopwatch….bang…..bang/stop the stopwatch. 7 seconds not a single shooter. 8…….borderline. 9….possible.
If/when we clear that we move on the next element of the event: ballistics. Then wounding. Etc.

As, again, I said before, I do have an issue with buying that modern technology can’t, apparently, figure out that timeframe. To a milisecond.
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j2 says:
June 20, 2018 at 7:20 am GMT • 200 Words
@Dillon Sweeny

“The bullets were extracted and identified per recognized forensic analysis. If you contend those were not the actual bullets, either produce same, or produce evidence of bullet-like phenomena that evaporated after doing the dirty deed.”
So, you want evidence of a bullet-like thing, like a casing? James Files confessed having shot the final Grassy Knoll shot and said that he bit the casing and put in on the fence. A casing was found, there were marks from biting, it was from Remington Firebird. Though later it was claimed that the stamp on the casing showed that it was produced after 1963, this is not necessarily true. The drawings of the casing with this kind of stamp were approved after 1963, but it is perfectly possible that the machine produced casings that did not fully agree with drawings and so drawings were changed to correspond to the machine, not inversely. I once worked in a factory where they did the same: change the drawing when an internal review showed inconsistency, instead of changing the million dollar machine.

So, I cannot say if Files told the truth, but here you have a very concrete bullet-like piece of evidence and a confession. This is more than from the casings and bullets from Oswald, as Oswald did not confess and there are doubts of his rifle’s capabilities. A Firebird shot just after a rifle shot from the back surely could blow up JFK’s head as in the Zapruder film.
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Wizard of Oz says:
June 20, 2018 at 9:13 am GMT • 300 Words
@CanSpeccy

What’s your plausible scenario for Johnson’s guilty knowledge? Presumably too risky for him to do any serious organising. After all he wouldn’t want to have to even laugh off someone’s recollection that he went to see “Murder in the Cathedral” and came back laughing about his version of “Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?” being “Who will rid me of this goddam drugged up whoring President?”. Much less could he afford to sound people out.

So it has to start elsewhere. Very high level representatives of the Israeli government could have plenty of justified contact with Johnson and so could American de facto representatives of Israel that the ambassador, say, might vouch for as knowing the mind of the Israeli government. If it was a big actual or potential donor no problem explaining the contact.

The next step is that Johnson is sounded out on e.g. nuclear weapons and registration of foreign lobbyists to ascertain effectually what his policy positions would be if he were President. (I have previously noted that the policy on nuclear weapons didn’t actually change on LBJ becoming President but let us press on). The LBJ involvement would have to be very slight or he could have been blackmailed into immediate easing off on Dimona, and maybe much more. And here a thought occurs to me. There is no way that LBJ would have been such an innocent as to allow any possibility of blackmail – which means a very peripheral involvement by him, if any.

But what about Israel not being willing to be patient and rely on diplomacy and cunning? Search this thread for Abba Eban and you will find my reasoning which leads me to the conclusion that Israel wouldn’t have risked it.

Mind you if that last conclusion is wrong I daresay Israel would have had a couple of plants in the FBI, CIA and elsewhere who could enlist precisely the kind of low life which Oswald and Ruby both were in their ways.
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j2 says:
June 20, 2018 at 10:33 am GMT • 100 Words
@Laurent Guyénot

One problem with the magic bullet theory is that Connally did not believe in it

Connally is Johnson’s accomplice. Period.

Connally was Johnson’s accomplice, OK, but he probably did not make a deal of being shot. So he was not told that JFK would be shot with him and his wife sitting in the same car. I would not trust a sniper to be so good as to agree to sit as a target. So when it did happen, Connally must have been pretty chocked being shot and all, and he told what he thought was the truth: JFK was shot before him. He could not think Johnson was behind the attack at that time, they were pals. But agreed, Connally did not make much trouble with his disbelieve in the magic bullet theory.
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Conspiracy theory

ians says:
June 20, 2018 at 3:50 pm GMT • 300 Words

An extract from projectunspaekable site.
Simple question- why should the CIA be concerned at a growing suspicion among the public that the assassination was a result of a conspiracy?

‘Conspiracy theory’s acutely negative connotations may be traced to liberal historian Richard Hofstadter’s well-known fusillades against the “New Right.” Yet it was the Central Intelligence Agency that likely played the greatest role in effectively “weaponizing” the term. 


In the groundswell of public skepticism toward the Warren Commission’s findings on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the CIA sent a detailed directive to all of its bureaus. Titled “Countering Criticism of the Warren Commission Report,” the dispatch played a definitive role in making the “conspiracy theory” term a weapon to be wielded against almost any individual or group calling the government’s increasingly clandestine programs and activities into question.

This important memorandum and its broad implications for American politics and public discourse are detailed in a book by Florida State University political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith, Conspiracy Theory in America. Dr. deHaven-Smith devised the state crimes against democracy concept to interpret and explain potential government complicity in events such as the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the major political assassinations of the 1960s, and 9/11.
CIA Document 1035-960 was released in response to a 1976 FOIA request by the New York Times. The directive is especially significant because it outlines the CIA’s concern regarding “the whole reputation of the American government” vis-à-vis the Warren Commission Report. The agency was especially interested in maintaining its own image and role as it “contributed information to the [Warren] investigation".
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In Ike Altgen’s famous photograph, JFK can be seen clutching at his throat. The throat wound was described at Parkland as a wound of entry.

    When JFK was brought to trauma room one in Parkland Hospital, the attending surgeon identified the wound as a wound of entry [...] The president was still alive and efforts were being made to save him so a tracheotomy was made. The doctors used the wound of entry and enlarged it so a tube could be inserted.

    Dr. Robert N. McClelland, a Parkland surgeon on duty that day, was in trauma room one and was asked to assist with the tracheotomy. As he assisted, he came behind the president, behind his head, and he announced to the other doctors present that there was a wound of exit at the back of his head. McClelland was 18 inches away from the president’s head for a good seven to eight minutes.

    For further evidence, we need go no further than two motorcycle officers that were riding in the left rear behind the presidential vehicle. Both motorcycle officers were splattered with brain tissue. One officer, Bobby Hargis, was struck so hard that he thought that he had been hit with a bullet on that day. Pieces of the president’s skull were found in the left rear. This nullifies the concept that Kennedy’s head was moving towards a shooter.
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Peripatetic commenter says:
June 20, 2018 at 5:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
@ians

I have this view that the issue is not whether or not the CIA did it but who ordered it.

I think that the majority of Americans now have the view that it was a conspiracy and it’s a dark part of our history, but the current view is that, “oh well, it was Americans who organized it.”

However, what if it found that a foreign power ordered and managed the assassination of JFK (and probably RFK because he was going to dig it all up again.) In that case I think there would be many calls for retaliation and reprisals, even after 55 years.

We have already seen after 9/11 that sufficient people acquiesced in the notion of destroying Saddam Hussein for his alleged involvement in those events …

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lysias says:
June 20, 2018 at 5:32 pm GMT • 200 Words

Yes, the absence of any mention of Billie Sol Estes in Caro’ s multi-volume biography of LBJ struck me when I read Caro’ s latest volume. Well, if he had mentioned Estes, he would have had to cite the book that Estes coauthored with French journalist William Reymond in 2003: JFK: The Last Witness. (I have had to type the English translation of the title because Autocorrect won’t let me post the French. With spaces inserted, it is JFK: L e d e r n I e r t e m o I n.) And the book makes clear how the assassination happened when it did because LBJ had insisted that it be speeded up and conveyed this insistence to the Texas Mafia through one of his chief aides, Cliff Carter. Carter and another associate, Mac Wallace, played key roles in organizing the assassination. Estes knew about this because he had been told about it in detail by Carter and Wallace in December 1963. Caro supports the Warren Commission fiction.

Not surprisingly, the Reymond/Estes book has never been published in English translation.
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CanSpeccy says: • Website
June 20, 2018 at 5:50 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Wizard of Oz

    What’s your plausible scenario for Johnson’s guilty knowledge?

I have none. Maybe the claim, by Johnson’s mistress, Madelaine Duncan Brown, that Johnson anticipated the assassination is false. However, the Warren Commission Report appears to have been a cover up (I actually read the damn thing, all 25 volumes, and while every detail now escape me,the account it provides of the assassination appears to have been false in almost every significant detail).

Allen Dulles, the CIA Director that Kennedy fired, is said to have played a key role in shaping the Warren Commission Report. Given the reasons that Dulles, in particular, and others at the CIA* had for antagonism toward Kennedy, it seems entirely possible that Dulles would have known of, and may have played a central role in organizing, Kennedy’s assassination. If so, Dulles, or whoever the organizers were, would likely have sought assurance that Johnson would provide them with cover in the aftermath. If so, Dulles, who Johnson appointed to the Warren Commission, could have been the intermediary seeking that assurance.

———
* According to this BBC report, it was the CIA group responsible for the Bay of Pigs Cuba invasion debacle, who killed RFK. That makes sense, since if elected President, Robert Kennedy, who seems to have been very naive, could have been expected to go after his brother’s killers.
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The Triple Underpass

Bombercommand says:
June 20, 2018 at 6:21 pm GMT • 500 Words
@James N. Kennett

James N. Kennett, thank you for your courteous reply. You voice three objections: 1) The head shot did not necessarily come from above Kennedy,
2) & 3), there were spectators on The Triple Underpass who would have seen and heard a rifle shootist there. Before I deal with your objections, I must emphasize that there is one unassailable fact from that day, the wound to the right rear head was an EXIT wound, and everything devolves from this, it is “The Clincher”, and no amount of tortured argumentation can make it go away. Now to your first objection.This wound tells us three things:
1) the gun was in front of Kennedy,
2) the gun was slightly to the left of Kennedy from his perspective (less than 30 degrees left),
3) the gun was high enough so the trajectory could clear the windshield and “rollbar” of the limo. Remarkably, the terrain of Dealy Plaza corresponds to these three stipulations perfectly giving two possible locations for the rifle shootist:
1) on the so-called South Knoll bordering the south side of Commerce St. or
2) on top of The Triple Underpass directly above the pedestrian tunnel on the south side of Commerce, where the trees on the South Knoll meet the concrete guardrail of The Triple Underpass.
Personnaly I do not favor the South Knoll site. It is a bit too far left to make the exit wound, it is not certain there was an unobstructed line of sight through the trees, there was risk of a pedestrian on the sidewalk bordering the South Knoll spotting the shootist, and finally no obstruction to a cop charging up the Knoll.
The Triple Underpass site has none of these problems, which leads us to your objections
2) & 3) which MUST be considered. As to hearing the shot, the range of the target was short, making use of a subsonic load suitable. A subsonic rifle load with silencer is very quiet. I believe the rifle was a semi auto takedown, with a low power scope with adjustable parallax.
Regarding “the spectators” on The Triple Underpass, no pedestrians were permitted on ANY overpass on the parade route, the Secret Service was specific about this to the Dallas Police Department, and police were posted to prevent this.
Two DPD officers, J W Foster and J C White were posted on top of The Triple Underpass, why did they not order “the spectators” seen in your linked photo to clear out? That was their job.
J C White perjured himself to the Warren Commission, claiming he neither saw nor heard the assassination due to a loud freight train going over The Triple Underpass when no train appears in any photo, in fact trains, like pedestrians, were prohibited from any overpass on the parade route.
The two cops had a very simple job: see nothing and say nothing. I believe these “spectators” were part of The Team, there to block lines of sight from the Elm St. side of The Triple Underpass to the Commerce St. side (where the Kill Team was set up) in the event someone climbed the embankment near Elm to The Triple Underpass. The Kill Team bugged out to the south.

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MacNucc11 says:
June 20, 2018 at 6:34 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Anon

Makes absolutely no sense to me that someone could pick Oswald out of the whole population of Dallas walking the streets and seek to question him based on what? A description of him? It is not like his picture is on America’s most wanted. Even allowing they are looking for him for some reason how in the heck do they know what he looks like and locate him that quick? Because the guy who was meant to kill him actually knew exactly what he looked like and where he was going to be.
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Iris says:
June 21, 2018 at 12:19 am GMT • 200 Words
@Bombercommand

“it would be necessary for part of the Dallas Police Department to be part of a conspiracy”

The conspiracy succeeded in the first place because of a major “malfunction” within the Secret Service who was supposed to protect President Kennedy.

The Secret Service were mostly absent, did not respect any security protocol when organising the motorcade, and even notoriously partied and drank until the early hours before the fatal shooting.
When the Secret Service came under scrutiny of the HSCA in 1979, evidence of the motorcade was destroyed and the matter was closed. The agent in charge was Emory Roberts. He met an early death in the late 60′s.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara/roberts.html

“The Secret Service made the killing of a president, which could have been prevented, possible. The awful truth, kept from the public for years, is that but for the Secret Service’s blunders President Kennedy would not have been slain”.

http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1174&context=fac_pm
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Paul C. says:
June 21, 2018 at 2:23 am GMT • 400 Words
@renfro

    As for this….”I view the CIA as an arm of the Central Bankers”…….who are you viewing as the Central Bankers?

The Central Bankers are a private cartel, so it’s difficult to get information, but the list of names in this link seems pretty consistent among several researchers:

https://www.facts-are-facts.com/news/the-federal-reserve-is-privately-owned#.WysDlC2ZP1w

Think about it. Private bankers dictate to our government how much money will be created and in circulation and at what interest rates. And the government pays them interest and through the Treasury, Bureau of Engraving, creates the currency. The money is being created out of thin air, why wouldn’t the gov’t do this and keep the proceeds versus paying guaranteed interest (backed by our labor) to the Fed. A private Central Bank is unconstitutional as only the gov’t has the right to coin money.

This set up is the same all over the world and those countries that resist get invaded. The Central Bank of all central banks is the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Switzerland. These select families (including of course the Rothschilds) own the system, which includes the IMF, World Bank and United Nations and they have all their surrogates CFR, Trilateral Commission and the like to help formulate policy. At its heart, it’s Communism. Communism, Zionism, Freemasonry, Bolshevism, Socialism, Marxism are largely Jewish constructs.

With an unlimited money supply, the bankers own the politicians and thus gov’t and also own and control the pillars of our society: Justice system, education, media, medicine and finance. We are completely controlled, lied to and are not free. The US gov’t made its citizens turn in their gold and silver in 1933 in lieu for Federal Reserve Notes. So much for freedom. People vote for one of the two measly parties this constitutional republic offers, but the end result is the same, since both parties are controlled.

Research the Rockefeller’s control on US Medicine. Cures are a thing of the past and prevention is swept under the carpet. Medicine is business and it’s not that they need he money it’s control.

If you have the time check out this Ron Bernard video (and there are several others). He was one of the (Illuminati) bankers in the system and flipped.

From my point of view, private Central Banking is the main influence of evil affecting all societies.

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Ron Unz says:
June 21, 2018 at 3:49 am GMT • 200 Words

Well, I certainly haven’t read the nearly 80,000 words of comments in this enormous thread. But I’d guess that something like 25-35% of the remarks are in the “no conspiracy” camp, and for those, I just came across another interesting item while working on my Part II.

On p. 542 of Talbot’s 2015 book, he discusses that during Oswald’s late September trip to Mexico, someone impersonating him made calls to the Cuban and Soviet embassies, calls that intercepted and recorded by the CIA. After the assassination, Hoover listened to the calls and immediately informed Johnson that the voice was not Oswald’s. All of this was presented in a 1995 book by John Newman, a history professor and former U.S. military intelligence officer, which also discussed the extremely suspicious behavior of the CIA regarding Oswald in the weeks just prior to the assassination.

The nice thing about making a very strong case for a “conspiracy” is that it requires such minimal evidence, e.g. merely a second shooter would be sufficient. And if someone were impersonating Oswald in calls to the Cubans and the Russians weeks before the assassination, that seems extremely difficult to explain without admitting a “conspiracy.”

Although I’m hardly a JFK assassination expert, my own feeling is that there are something like 100 separate factual items, each individually ranging from plausible to very likely, and any one of which if true would be enough to establish the overwhelming likelihood of a conspiracy.

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Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
June 21, 2018 at 5:39 am GMT • 100 Words
@Paw

Aha, now you have figured out from the faces of the detectives with Oswald when he was shot that Dallas PD killed both Kennedy and Oswald.

I suppose you wouldn’t even question them, just arrest and charge them with 2 homicides, conspiracy to commit 2 homicides, some other charges

And you’d use just that picture as your evidence. The charges would be dismissed at the bail hearing, no more than 48 hours after you arrested them.

Crazy crazier and craziest. This is worse than the Betty Ong thread.
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j2 says:
June 21, 2018 at 6:02 am GMT • 400 Words
@Sparkon

I think the shot that caused the would in the neck of JFK likely came from the back (bouncing to the neck after hititng the car) and was the fourth shot. This I justify by the following argument.

1. Dictabelt can be timed by the bell and other markers to the time of the assassination. The timing by a crosstalk to a later time can be shown incorrect as this crosstalk shows tampering: the signal is too regular to be human voice.

2. After timing the Dictabelt correctly, there are 5 visible impulses with wide spectrum in the time span of the assassination. They are in my Dictabelt copy placed as follows: three louder at 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s, two less loud at 53.2s and 53.8s. Echo analysis, though a weak proof, agrees with locating all three first shots to the Texas School Book Repository.

3. Assigning the last impulse to the head shot in the Zapruder frame 313, we get the timing. The average speed of the Zapruder film was 18.3 fps. That means that the first shot 52.5s is around the frame 198. There is a blurred frame 197, but some after it are also blurred. If we think that 197 is blurred because Zapruder shoke the camera when hearing the shot, the first shot was around frame 194 giving Zapruder a reaction time 160 ms. Then the speed of the film can be established as (312-194)/(58.8-52.5)=18.7 fps. The nominal speed of the camera was 16 fps. The speed fluctuated a bit with the average 18.3 fps. Thus, 18.7 fps is fine. Then the shot at 55.6s is at frame 253. JFK’s hand goes to the neck in the frame 254. It is a very short movement and can be by impact. There are still the impulses at 53,2s and 53.8 s, that is frames 210 and 221. They happened when the car was behind the traffic sign. They can correspond to the back shot to JFK (frame 210) and shot to Connally (221). There must be a shot from the front at 58.9s to explain his fall (and the exit would in the back of the head if that information is correct).

4. From this I deduce that the shot to the neck seen in frame 254, time 55.6s, likely came from the back. Either the bullet from the back hit the car and bounced to JFK’s neck, or it was a fragment of something, like a mirror, from a shot that came from the back. Of course, it might be from the front, but then the scenario must be slightly modified.
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